Revit MEP Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Revit MEP Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular Revit MEP topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Opinion needed on spearate MEP models

13 REPLIES 13
Reply
Message 1 of 14
RAMasterson
827 Views, 13 Replies

Opinion needed on spearate MEP models

I was looking to get a general consensus on having all MEP trades in a single model vs. splitting up the trades into separate models and linking them.

What would be the pros and cons for each scenario?

All comments welcome...thanks

13 REPLIES 13
Message 2 of 14
Sandleaz
in reply to: RAMasterson

I always go with multiple files, as many as each discipline wants and everyone's happy linking each others files.  Avoids unnecessary headaches.    

 

Obvious pros:

  • Smaller files ---> better performance.  
  • If the one file gets too big, corrupted, and cannot be recovered, good luck!    
  • Easier division of work and less people working on a model.  Greater accountability.  
  • Less worksets.
  • No taking ownership of other people's stuff by touching them.
  • Sheets/views/.... from other disciplines are not in your file. 
  • If someone wants to sabotage your stuff, they have to go into your files.  
  • Want to turn stuff off easily? Just turn off the file!  
  • Allows for greatest flexibility.  

 

Message 3 of 14
jkarben
in reply to: RAMasterson

Single model as much as you can:

 

  • Facilitates team work and communicates
  • Single model setup and maintenance
  • Improved collaboration between trades

At times separate models will be necessary due to size. One for mechanical and one for electrical typical is enough of a split. It will be up to you to determine how to gauge making separate models. Do make the decision from the start vs. trying to split them later.

 

Factors that determine the need for separate models:

  • Building sq footage
  • Linked model size (MB)
  • PC Hardware.
  • Team modeling maturity.

 

Message 4 of 14
casquatch
in reply to: RAMasterson

We use a single model. From time to time I see pro's to dividing them up, but overall we usually don't have many issues.

It does encourage more coordination/collaboration/communication. One of the main reasons why I don't like the idea of individual models is the setup time and the template updates.

Either the templates would need to be divided up or the initial setup of the Central files would take extra time to purge the un-needed stuff for each discipline.
Message 5 of 14
Sandleaz
in reply to: casquatch

I guess I had different experiences than some of you and perhaps the computers I worked on had worse hardware.  I've seen other people's unrecoverable monstrosities where people lost a lot of work, and I've helped split a few monstrosities (that took forever to open) into a bunch of files.  It's an ugly, time consuming process that could have been avoided by simply splitting up the files in the first place.  

 

It does encourage more coordination/collaboration/communication.    

 

This makes no sense.  1 file or a million files, how does this encourage better coordination/collaboration/communication?  You can see everything you want from the linked files just like you can with AutoCAD.  You guys use 1 AutoCAD file for all your disciplines as well?  What does a silent mechanical engineer do differently with 1 file or a million files by not telling the electrical engineer that he has equipment that needs power?  He won't say anything in either case.  Of course if you consider the convenience of moving other people's stuff (without going to another file) around to benefit you and screw the other people, that is definetly a pro.        

 

I can't imagine how many filters you have to create to turn off the pipes of different trades.  Let me guess, you turn worksets on/off instead.  Toggling through all those worksets must be fun.  

 

 

Also, I can't imagine having so many users work on the same file at the same time.  A couple users would occassionally (every hour or so) try save to central at the same time.  The first user would be successful.  The second user would get a message.  10+ users trying to save to 1 central file?  Might have to create a schedule when everyone can save to central!

 

The project browser must be loaded with everyone's views, families, sheets, etc.  Let me guess, browser organization becomes extra important?

 

 

What about that user that decides to load in a family that crashes or corrupts the file?  With one file, everyone's screwed (temporarily).  With multiple files, that user is screwed.  

 

 

Like I said earlier, people have different experiences and you might not have experienced any issues at all by having one file for everyone.  To be fair, let me give an actual pro of having 1 file.  Electrical can use the electrical connectors (if there are any) on the mechanical equipment and create circuits directly instead of having some simple workaround.      

 

 

 

 

Message 6 of 14
abulla
in reply to: Sandleaz

We're up to 94 view filters and counting, and we use View Templates to control visibility in our views. It's really not that complicated once the templates are set up. We also like to circuit our mechanical equipment directly rather than using a separate family in a separate electrical model.

 

Again, this is just anectdotal, I wouldn't try and say our way is the only way, but we've only come across one model over the years that needed to be split up, and that was for a couple of reasons. One, we hadn't developed our view templates yet, and two, there was a huge number of process piping systems in the building. These days, if we got a project like that (500,000 sq ft + food manufacturing plant), I wouldn't hesitate for a second to break up the model.

 

The most important thing BIM/model managers should do when evaluating the situation is make a decision from the beginning and stick with it. You don't want to go through the pain of separating a model after it's been developed.

Message 7 of 14
jkarben
in reply to: RAMasterson

All about the filters and view templates. Goes pretty easy with them in place. R13 and R14 make it even better with view types and view temp overrides.

Single model FTW.

Multi models on LARGE projects.
Message 8 of 14
bjlottis
in reply to: RAMasterson

I'd like to resurrect this discussion. To see if nine years later any opinions have changed. I have a PM asking if we can set up separate models to manage file size. We have a pretty good workflow for ensuring coordination between Elec and Mech which will get lost if we work in separate models.
What do you see as pros and cons?
Thanks

Message 9 of 14
RobDraw
in reply to: bjlottis

Nothing new here except hardware can handle larger projects.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
Message 10 of 14
casquatch
in reply to: bjlottis

I'd agree. Not really any new functionality with linked models, etc. for MEP.

 

I don't think that splitting the files up really helps either. Sure, each file is smaller, but you still have to load all the linked files and linked elements. With split files, each individual MEP file contains duplicate items (families, systems, views, etc. that are needed for the MEP templates) so the total of all the files is larger, which means more loading into memory.

 

It really comes down to what folks are showing in their views while working. Work in a smart way. Turn things off that you don't need to see while you are modeling, or be more specific on your view setup. Use working views, etc. You have the potential to see the same stuff in a view if you choose to whether you have it all in one model, or loaded from a bunch of links.

Message 11 of 14
RobDraw
in reply to: casquatch

There are a number of advantages to working with splitting the model and view settings is near the bottom of the list. Near the top of it is model performance and modeling environment. View settings are easy either way.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
Message 12 of 14
robert2JCCH
in reply to: casquatch

Yes, you would have to load all relevant linked files, but you do get the benefit of unloading as-needed due to file bloat, mismanagement of modelling practices, etc. than can sometimes occur with large teams. You get a mild amount of troubleshooting at the local user level than can occur rather than waiting for a BIM coordinator to run their diagnostics to figure out what elements are developing performance issues.

 

Additionally, there's a level of element protection with linked files that's just really convenient to have when training users at multiple skill levels. An electrician does not necessarily need to move a mechanical duct in their workflow, and it's nice to not be given the ability to (accidentally) do so.

Message 13 of 14
HVAC-Novice
in reply to: RAMasterson

It also depends on if the disciplines belong to the same group or company. 

 

One model is great for all the electrical connections for plumbing, mechanical, motorized doors etc. But if the mechanical designer or architect works in a different company from the electrical designer, then a single model doesn't work well, if at all. imagine shared parameter, txt file for keynotes, general difference in schedules, styles etc. and then the difference in sophistication. 

Revit version: R2024.2
Message 14 of 14
jwinkler8A6WX
in reply to: RAMasterson

I would say the decision is governed by the level of design (LOD) of your model.  I've tried both ways.  I've been on the electrical team for several firms, and I've never worked in a model where the mechanical and plumbing families were accurate enough to use the connectors between disciplines, or to schedule the electrical information of say an HVAC unit.  We are usually just creating a generic j-box which represents a connection near the Mech/Plumbing equipment.  And Mechanical/Plumbing are just inserting a generic family and manually typing in the design data for scheduling.  If you are using LOD 400 with detailed, accurate Revit models and families (maybe for fabrication and such).  That's when it would benefit you to keep the MEP in one model.  It's also necessary to think about the life of the model.  Is someone going to take it and develop further?  Then it also might be better to keep the systems joined.   But for smaller companies and less experienced Revit users, IMO its safer to split the trades.

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Rail Community


Autodesk Design & Make Report