no hidden line in existing duct drop

[RAMasterson]

I"m not getting a hidden line when I have existing duct with a mitered elbow down, show on a view with New Construction phase. If I change the phase to existing the hidden line shows but the linework is heavy.

Any help is appreciated...thanks

[CoreyDaun]

Check you Phase Filters - perhaps there is an line style override taking precedence. Go to Manage tab » Phases » Phase Filters tab.

[RAMasterson]

Thanks for the suggestion...I had already looked at the phase filters & played around with no joy. I revisited there again after your post...no good. Perhaps its somthing in my template. I tried to attach a sample .rvt that is exhibiting this behavior (purged as much as possible), but its still to big (5mb) . If possible, could I email you the file and you have a look and see if you can locate the problem.

Reply to my email so your won't have to post your address: ram@leapc.com

Thanks again!

[CoreyDaun]

Before resorting to email, try manually deleting all of the unused Pipe and Duct Fittings as 'Purge Unused' will not remove them. If it's still not small enough, I shall send you my email address via Private Message.

[RAMasterson]

Deleting the Duct/Pipe fitting did the trick...toggling the view's phase from New Construction to Existing will show the issue.

Thanks Corey

[CoreyDaun · Accepted solution]

This is indeed a matter of  Phasing / Phase Filters / Graphic Overrides.

So, the Ducts are existing (they're created in the Existing Phase), which means that if the View is set to the Existing Phase, then these elements are considered "NEW" by Revit. This is because setting the View to the Existing Phase is like traveling back in time to the point in which the existing elements were built, hence, they are considered to be new in this View.

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Here are a couple of threads if you would like a more detailed explanation on Phases:

Phasing in an Existing model  &  Phased by Phasing

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Now, since these are considered "NEW", they display "By Category" according to the Phase Filters (reference the image below, green), and thus are not affected by the Phase Override Graphics.

Once the View's Phase is set to New Construction, these elements are now considered "EXISTING" since they are created in a previous phase. This means that according to the Phase Filters, the graphics will be "Overridden" (reference the image below, red). And since the Override Graphics of the Existing Phase Status are forcing a "solid" line pattern, the Duct's hidden line is overridden.

If you change this Pattern override to "<no override>", your hidden lines will display as you desire, but be warned: this will affect the display of all elements in the entire Project!

[RAMasterson]

Wow... Excellent response and thanks for the education. I had to read it a couple of times, but I think I've got it.

Thank you so much.

[CoreyDaun]

It can be a lot to absorb. To delve a little deeper into this, perhaps I have a little test questions for you then (if you're interested):

So, when you change the View's Phase to New Construction, the Duct lines take on the Graphic Override, which is a Solid line, right? Well, can you tell me why the Duct lines do not also take on the Gray Color that is define by the Graphics Override, instead remaining blue?

[RAMasterson]

I assume its because the supply air duct system type properties graphics overrides take priority...and thats set to blue

[CoreyDaun]

Phase Graphic Overrides actually trump the System Graphic Overrides. And while that is indeed responsible for the "blue-ing" of the new elements belonging to that Duct System, there is another element in play here. Try changing the Duct System to Red and see that the Duct remains blue.

[RAMasterson]

So, I have a filter setup Mechanical -Supply that is set to Blue. If I change the Supply duct system to red and delete the filter then the duct turns red. The filter is what is the top priority.

Now, with this setup, is the Duct System and the Filter battling each other? Is the filter unnecessary?

[CoreyDaun]

Here is the general Visibility/Graphics Override hierarchy:

Highest Priority

Override by Element

View Filters

Phase Filter

System Overrides

Object Styles

______________

Lowest Priority

I wouldn't say that they're battling each other, necessarily. The benefit to the System Graphic Overrides is that it is a Project-wide setting, whereas View Filters are per View (which isn't so bad when incorporated into View Templates). The downside to System Overrides is that it affect all Categories of Elements that are connected to that System, instead of just the Ducts and Pipes. In the example depicted in the image below, the left sink is being affected by the System Graphic Overrides due to being connected to the Pipe System. The right sink appears correctly because it belong to more than one system, and no longer fits the criteria of the System Override.

There is no "absolute best" way to do this because everyone has different standards. Personally, I prefer View Filters over System Overrides. One of the reasons for this actually pertains to our architectural clients - when they link in our model, our System Overrides are still in affect and they have a heck of a time trying to figure out what's going on. I'm guessing that since they are using Revit Architecture, they do not have access to the Duct and Pipe Systems in order to remove the overrides.

[RAMasterson]

Great information Corey, I'll take all of this into consideration when setting up our Revit standards.

Thanks for taking the time to explain things.