Converting to riser diagrams

[mue00]

Hi;

I just want to know if there is a way (i.e.. An Autodesk software) to convert a mechanical layout (water pipes layout for example), in Revit format, into a 2D riser diagram (just similar to the one we used to draw using ACAD). This would be very helpful and less time consuming if the 3D layout can be directly converted to a 2D riser diagram. The draftsman is sometimes facing problems when drawing the riser diagram from the Revit model.

So please advice.

Regards;

[Sandleaz]

Hi;

I just want to know if there is a way (i.e.. An Autodesk software) to convert a mechanical layout (water pipes layout for example), in Revit format, into a 2D riser diagram (just similar to the one we used to draw using ACAD). This would be very helpful and less time consuming if the 3D layout can be directly converted to a 2D riser diagram. The draftsman is sometimes facing problems when drawing the riser diagram from the Revit model.

So please advice.

Regards;

Autodesk makes lots of software and I am nearly 100% sure that none of the software automatically converts any revit 3D model of a piping layout into a 2D piping diagram.  If your draftsman has trouble sketching out a simple 2D riser diagram in REVIT (or autocad), perhaps you should get another draftsman.  You can probably get an isometric diagram but you'd have items you don't want to show that if you hide, you'll get gaps in your pipes.    

This would be very helpful and less time consuming if the 3D layout can be directly converted to a 2D riser diagram.

You know what else would be less time consuming: if you openned REVIT and REVIT automatically did all the work for you in a few minutes.  I am sure the autodesk programmers are getting on that task for the next REVIT version.

[sforsberg215]

Howdy

If all the pipinging work is done in Revit and you would like to create isometrics from that work, there are ways to turn it into a 2D drawing in AutoCad.

However, it cannot be done in Revit '11.

In r. 12 & 13, First create a 3D view of the piping you need to show in isometric. Second, using Filters, shut off every element, line, etc., except the piping. Then, rotate the piping in the view to the angle you want, it doesn't necessarily have to be 30 degrees. Finally, LOCK THE VIEW.

One may export the results to AutoCad and text it up the way you want, or text it up in Revit, except Revit 2011.

I admit, though, that I have a standardized AutoCad Isometric plumbing file I developed over the years which I still use that to create isometric details and then Import them into Revit.

Hope that helps a little.

[asommer]

Easy does it... Let's not attack.

Due to Revit's 3D existence, a one-line diagram is pretty much out of the question.  You can cut a section thru the whole building, turn all off but the equipment you are one-lining, however some might be behind others, and you cannot move them.  you can use it as a template, though.

For revit to do this automatically, you would have to accept the Revit OOTB way of doing it (there is none currently), which probably wouldn't be adjustable or customizable, most probably wouldn't like it and would do it manually anyway.

[Sandleaz]

Easy does it... Let's not attack.

The sarcastic nature of my response is not an attack on anyone.  The diagram showing the pipe sizes, flows, (whatever else you want to show) ... can come before the REVIT modelling instead of the other way around.  There's a certain "mentality" that I've encountered: REVIT (and especially "BIM", the magical database of stuff a lot people refer to that never used REVIT in their lives) can do anything and everything automatically, easily, and requires little time and effort.  This is usually found in people that either don't use REVIT, project managers that have no clue, senior engineers with their heads in the sand, or architects that should stick to architecture instead of trying to find ways to screw the other disciplines.  It also makes its way to the forums sometimes.

[julianjameson8403]

To be fair to Sandleaz he has a point - the usual workflow is schematic design then more detailed designs. Therefore a riser diagram would normally be one of the earliest drawings that is produced on a project. 

That said - each project is different and we don't know why meu00 is putting the cart before the horse - could be a good reason or what they are asked to do.

Anyway - the simple answer is no, you can't get a schematic diagram as we are used to from ta 2D package.

The other options of isometrics are one option (and yes you can do it in 2011 but it is text and the 3D view ca be adjusted so that is not an ideal workflow) and asommers option is another (however also fraught with issues).

We normally do the 2D riser diagram in AutoCAD and link into a drafting view as in our workflow, this is the basis of the design and the piping, etc. is the real world interpretation of this design.

Sandleaz - I feel your frustration!!

[asommer]

Agree 100%.  The one-Liners typically go first.  Just saying there is no way currently to take a 3d layout (Mue00 has already) and convert into 2d one-line automatically.  Dumb Squares and lines, unfortunately.  Tell the drafter he's not fired, just has to do it the long way around.

[mterry2019]

I know that I am really late to the game but I wanted to share some of my thoughts on this subject. I see the point that everyone in this thread is trying to make, but I have to agree with the original posters stance that Revit should be able to help automate single line diagrams from the components placed in the model. Revit can make schedules, but it is up to the user to make the schedule act and be formatted in a way that works best for their needs. Same goes for single line schematics. This should be an option for those of us who rely on these diagrams to communicate our designs.

It is totally awesome that everything can be in 3D, but let’s face it; we still need these 2D representations for permitting, bidding, and actually building the project. Autodesk does have a lot of awesome tools for iPads and tablets that can be used on a construction site, but I personally don't know any contractor that is going to buy iPad for each employee to use during construction of a project. Let us also not forget about the construction worker who is trying to use an iPad or tablet to check out a connection in 3D, he may not be able to do it. Sure, there are a lot of younger people who work in construction and may have some tech savvy, but if you have a team of older people, they may not be able to ever use a device to check on their questions in 3D. My step-dad, been working in construction his whole life, will never use a device over paper.

Again, I say 3D is awesome, but we need to keep in mind who in the end has to use these drawings. Some sort of automation for riser would make things a little easier for those of us who have to make these all the time.

And for all of those people criticizing mue00 for wanting a little automation to save time, time is money; wouldn't you want to save some dough by not having to spend so much time drawing diagrams for a single project?

I would LOVE to work on diagrams all day, as long as they are for multiple projects. CA-CHING$$$$$$$

[daveclarkconsulting]

I do risers later in the job, not earlier, because of the hand-editing that follows. To leverage Revit, I would like a drafting-style view, populated (a palette, perhaps) with all of the modeled elements of particular categories, filtered to suit, with each element represented by a "diagram" tag. The tags would look like the symbols of your favourite riser (or one-line) diagram and could themselves be tagged consistent with with the 2D drawings. This way, the riser would still be "correct", having all of the model elements available for representation. Conduits, pipes, wires would behave like leader lines, yet would still have their parameters available for tagging. By placing a new element in the riser, the 3D element would appear in the model for placement. Revisions would be much easier than hand-editing!

[mreid]

I think you are a little angry for no reason there bud. Here is a perfect example of why riser diagrams need to come after the fact  ...and why someone would pose the question on this forum. We are currently doing a revit project where we turned the design documents into a 3d BIM model and produced coordination documents for construction. Because the designers and architects were so bad at what they do we have to recreate a riser diagram because of all the changes , reroutes , and offsets we added during coordination.We do not create riser diagrams often as we are a solely revit BIM coordination firm with very little involvement in design(aside from design build jobs). We have not run into this before but with the amount of as-built conditions we are adding to jobs i see this coming up more often. You catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar. We are all here looking for help or helping someone else here so try to keep the sarcasm at your desk and stay positive.

[RobDraw]

A little late to the party?

You are responding to a post that is over four years old.

[mreid]

Does the lapse of time affect the validity of my response? This problem exists today and people searching for the solution everyday and currently the world would be a lot better if people were nicer and provided positive feedback instead of sarcasm. Everyone on here knows they can create single line riser diagrams in cad but people are looking for a more efficient way. There is a magic button in revit that will do this for you ... its called an app that is just waiting to be developed and sold. I looked over the app market today and only saw an electric one. All it takes is someone to put in the time and programming and then eventually someone will find this thread again and say don't worry mate just go to the app market and buy _____ . instead of venting you problems with architects and the process(that is  not what this forum is for) Be positive and guide new people towards a solution that will work for them. 

[Sandleaz]

I think you are a little angry for no reason there bud.

Not sure who you're referring to but no one has gotten angry.  The reality of the situation is: you can make diagrams from what you modeled in Revit (your piping/conduit/ductwork can all be shown as single line), but Revit is not going to read your mind and produce the single line diagrams or riser diagrams that you want it to.  Conversely: Revit is NOT going to model anything based on any single line diagram you created beforehand.  You would figure that since most people create diagrams prior to laying out their piping/ductwork/conduit, they'd have those diagrams ready and want a feature that would have Revit do all that work for them.

Because the designers and architects were so bad at what they do we have to recreate a riser diagram because of all the changes , reroutes , and offsets we added during coordination.

That's not a Revit issue.  That's a user issue.  It would happen whether they used Revit, AutoCAD, or drawn by hand.

We have not run into this before but with the amount of as-built conditions we are adding to jobs i see this coming up more often.

Most of your work for as built conditions is laser scanning/surveying the existing conditions and modeling it in Revit.  If you compare that amount of work to survey/model in Revit to the amount of work to draw single line diagrams, it wouldn't even be close.  In other words: it takes many multiples more time to survey/model something than create a single line diagram based on it.  

We are all here looking for help or helping someone else here so try to keep the sarcasm at your desk and stay positive.    

What's wrong with sarcasm and nothing I said was negative ... it's just a bitter truth that you don't want to hear.  

This problem exists today and people searching for the solution everyday and currently the world would be a lot better if people were nicer and provided positive feedback instead of sarcasm. 

I think you're conflating being truthful with being "not nice".  Yes, the world would be a better place if people were nicer to each other, but it would also be a better place if people were honest and truthful with each other as well.  You can be nice and lie to other people at the same time.  

There is a magic button in revit that will do this for you ... its called an app that is just waiting to be developed and sold.

Then go ahead and get it.  If it doesn't exist, then create it.  No one is stopping you.  Just make sure that it does something you want it to do correctly.  You don't want to automate something that will give you wrong outputs even if it saves you time.  

[RobDraw]

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@mreid wrote:

There is a magic button in revit that will do this for you ... its called an app that is just waiting to be developed and sold. I looked over the app market today and only saw an electric one. All it takes is someone to put in the time and programming and then eventually someone will find this thread again and say don't worry mate just go to the app market and buy _____ . instead of venting you problems with architects and the process(that is  not what this forum is for) Be positive and guide new people towards a solution that will work for them. 

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People have been asking for this for a very long time. Don't you think that if it were that easy, it would have been done already?

You may now continue to wait for your magic button. It should come along with the great pumpkin.

[dgorsman]

Steady on guys...

As a long-time user of ISOGEN I can firmly state that automatically creating a 2D single line drawing from a model is *not* an easy task.  That's confirmed by looking at the various ISOGEN replacements from both Bentley and Autodesk (Plant3D, Project Calgary).  The results are almost always chunky (that's a charitable word for it), and that's for straight, level, and perfect 90 degree corners.

[scott_dakin1]

This is on Autodesk's development roadmap but they have not gotten round to it yet.

[RobDraw]

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@scott.dakin wrote:

This is on Autodesk's development roadmap but they have not gotten round to it yet.

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Could you source that?

I believe they are trying to link parameters from the model to the symbols in the diagrams, but you will still need to draw the 2D riser diagram. I can see flow diagrams being created automatically but not actual riser diagrams.

[scott_dakin1]

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-roadmaps/the-first-ever-public-revit-roadmap/ba-p/6633199

"Intelligently connected schematics and models" under MEP about a quarter of the way down the page.

It doesn't say exactly what it will be as they haven't created it yet.

It took them ten years to allow us to change the length of wires, might be a while coming!

[RobDraw]

I didn't know that was what "Roadmap" was. I thought it was some sort of Civil extension.

Frankly, I don't give a hoot about that list. It's a pacifier for all the bashers. I might start sending them there, though. Just to distract them for a bit.

I'm actually very interested in smart diagraming. I'm about to revisit diagrams in Revit and standardizing them for our projects. I will be looking for "intelligent" solutions.

[scott_dakin1]

I haven't really found a solution that suits me yet. I have tried detail items for symbols and lots of plain text as well as trying generic annotations with built-in parameters for the symbol geometry and text.

I'm not really happy with either method if I am honest although both work well enough.

One thing I don't do is use Groups as it doesn't seem to be a good way to proceed.