I have been doing something in 2012 MEP and it was working fine, but now in 2013 it gets all messed up.
In a section, without MEP fixtures, just piping, show a waste stub-out for a fixture, then pipe down in the wall and out horizontally below. Change the elbow to a tee at the stubout. I used to be able to draw a vent pipe down and connect it to the tee. The tee would stay part of Sanitary, and the pipe above would be vent. Now they are all one system or the other.
How do other folks show this? Anyone have a workaround?
This project was started in 2012, and upgraded to 2013, if that matters. Everything else seems to work fine.
We had this trouble with v2012. (but you say it worked in 2012). The Tee takes the system all the way through. I seem to alwys draw my sanitary piping first, then go up the wall. Wonder if this is one of those right to left vs. left to right Revit things?
Only way we worked around this, was to zoom-in, place the vent line just-above the tee. It appeared to be connected in the 3d view, but wasn't "connected" in Revit. I don't like that solution, but it got the jobs signed.
yeah...that is the only work-around I guess, but I don't like it. Then you hav eto watch carefully if you move something.
I have played around with an idea to substitute a custom Tee. My "Vent-San-Tee" connectors were linked through the branch and outlet, rather through the inlet and outlet of the main. My thought was, it's the linked connectors that carry the system data. Anyway, it didn't work. When a standard Tee was changed to the custom Tee, it went "wacky". I got "un-expected results". I didn't put anymore time into it. I believe we've already paid for this functionality.
In 13 I have not had any problem with vent to sanitary. Draw the waste line add the fittings. When you go to draw the vent line in check that the system type in the project browser is set to vent. Start adding pipe. When I model this way I have no problems
that is what I was doing, and occasionally it would swap teh whole system to vent or sanitary.....nothing consistent though.
weird.
I would love to get an answer on this as well. This software is driving me insane with its inconsistencies. I have been working on the same project for 6months. Back when I began this project, I was having no problem keeping vent pipes on a vent system, even when connected to sanitary piping. Now, its either one - or the other. I have no clue what I changed that would cause this. I don't have time for this nonsense.
Bottom Line.. Revit is not smarter than me, when I select a pipe and want to change it to a separate system, it should allow me to do it! Same goes for Domestic Hot water & Recirc Piping. I should be able to connect the Recirc piping to the Hot Water piping and be able have the Recirc piping on its own system.
I don't trust anything in this program. I don't want it to do my calcs for me, I just simply want to draw piping and ductwork in 3d.
Sorry, not trying to be combative here, but if you're only interested in drawing in 3D then you're using the wrong software. Revit focuses on the information and having 3D elements is simply one part of that. I would start looking into products that focus on 3D geometry.
Sorry, not to be combative here, but exactly what information are you talking about. We need to remember that the final product here is a buiding, not a database. When I started in this profession in the 1960s, we communicated the intent of the design quite adequately with pencil lines on paper. Now I design in REVIT, because Autodesk has sold this technology to my architect friends. Now, I must spend ten times as much time communicating with the construction team then I did 60 years ago.
Progress?
Ah, the good ole' days. Look, there's nothing wrong with doing board drafting, AutoCAD drafting, or 3D coordination. They're all valid forms of communicating design intent. Take things a bit further into object-oriented geometry, and eventually fully parametric models and things certainly start to get more complicated. It's a simple matter of choosing the right tool for the job. I'm not going to pull out my dremel for a simple task that I can finish in 10 seconds with my pocket knife. And I'm certainly not going to make a 3D CAD model of said task before I do it. That would just be silly.
Drop those defenses for a second and realize that I'm simply offering sound advice. If it's unclear what the advantages are of using the more complicated systems are then don't use them. The architects you're working with have chosen to take on a task that did not exist back in the good ole' days. If you think that they're simply trying to communicate the design intent then it's simply a misunderstanding on your part.
You seem to have missed my point here. The product is the buildung, not the database. Any information that does not contribute meaningfully to that end represents wasted effort. The considerable effort required to manage the system designation of a piece of pipe in the model contributes nothing. No one but me will ever know if I got it right. It's like masterbating in the dark.
Easy, folks. I am somewhere in between, I utilize the Revit system mainly for 3D coordination. The "Info Database" works when EVERYTHING is modeled absolutely accurate by EVERYONE, Civil, Architectural, Structural, MEP, down to the Manufacturers creating thier families. This alone (Manufacturer's families) is a big hurdle, a lot of times the comonents we typically spec are not available in Revit or has to be modified extensively for use other than just 3D coordination.
I believe the Revit is worth using for 3D coordination even if we do not utilize the Calcs and Schedules. I'm doing things much faster than Cad can, and I am coordinating at the same time. That's worth it to us.
Revit will get there. In the mean-time, there are work-arounds to get there on your own. I'm mad that they sold this to everyone without having tested every possible system layout, style or practice, but they are working on it (slowly).
I think many of us are in the same [sinking] boat. The Architect is really the one that drives the use of this program, otherwise we would choose to continue to use AutoCAD. Revit is still too incomplete an lacking, but it's getting better. Slowly...
We began Revit focused solely on 3D modeling and coordination, with all of our 'engineering intelligence' (schedules and calcs) being done like we normally do it, and imported from AutoCAD. Since then, we are progressing more towards adopting more of Revit's abilities, though there are currently too many flaws to use it exclusively.
Please dont tell me this. I am a plumber using Revit 2012 and I know that eventually we will have to upgrade. This is not what I wanted to hear. I have heard that slope pipe will be easier to draw. That pipe systems can be combined and that its faster.
I worked on a very large project that started in Revit 2010 and carried over through each upgrade up to 2012 and discoverd many kinks along the way. The files have become so huge its just bogging down our PCs. We had to split the model into smaller levels. Forget about linking in other disciplines to coordinate.
The sewer/vent dilema you ask about I have experienced many times. I started working from the sewer up. Make your tee at that location and add 2" pipe up from the top of the tee. Once the reducer and the stick of pipe are added from that point I remove the reducer, change the pipe to vent than stretch it back down to the tee. Seem to work for me and it stays vent/sewer respectivly. Now when you start connecting more vents to it along the run remember to be careful when select tabbing.
nice tip! I'll giv eit a try.
I have found that I mostly have issues when connecting things that were drawn in previous version (2012 in my case).
If we are talking about just getting the pipes to connect and the "Pipe Types" to be correct, that is pretty easy. even if it does carry the "Waste" from the tee, just change the pipe type. I noticed drawing in section, if I had the slope still turned on and I draw a vertical pipe, sometimes it will slope it in the vertical, causing lots of trouble.
Now, the "Systems" in revit is a bit more trouble. If you have a Vent "System" separate from a Waste "System", and connect them without some separation at the tee or fitting, the two "Systems" will combine. I ran into this with domestic water, having a "Recirculation" System. I created a "Tee' fitting, selected the connectors and changed the type from "Fitting" to "Domestic Hot Water" and used formulas for the flows of the connectors.
The sloping of the piping is trouble, but can be done.
The Systems of Vent and Waste can be done, but the connectors need to be set up just right.
To those who are posting here, who is using the Waste & Vent "Systems" for the Calcs and/or Sizing?
We haven't gotten into Revit doing the sizing yet.
Has it worked well for you?
Not very well. Really, Vent can't be sized by Revit, it has a different sizing method than Waste (atleast, the way we do it). The issue with waste is wall mounted fixtures utilize a carrier. These tend to not work well at all with connections, Fixture Units, Schedules, etc. so we just run pipes up to the Arch Plumbing fixtures and Schedules are in Cad. I do believe it is possible, though.
Hey, I have discovered this was something I didn't fully understand. You can have two systems on each side of a tee, you just have to follow the "Rules". If you tee into a line, then change the pipe on one side of the tee to a different system classification, the "rules" of Revit will assume you wanted the entire system to change. This rule also comes into play when you use the "connect into" command. Seems like a reducing tee gave me unexpected results also.
If you want the pipe above the tee to be vent, delete that section of sanitary pipe, and start over. Right-click on the tee (at the connector), select the "draw pipe" command. You must select the "vent" system classification at that time. You will get a warning: ignore it.
This way the pipes stay together if you move one. When pipes get out of line, you get into more problems . . . and rules.
These programing rules should be better documented. I've spent a ____ load of un-chargable time figuring out this stuff for myself.
That is how I have been doing them, but once in a while, when you aren't looking, a whole section will switch to vent or san. Then it is a REAL pain to have to go back and redraw it all to get it back. Pipes disconnected seem to want to hold on to the system they were before. You can have a single piece of pipe that is not connected to anything....change it's system...and it will change, but also pipes it used to be connected too will also change!