Vertical Face Hosted Families

[Anonymous]

It would really be nice to have a family template for building face based families for vertical faces (like walls).  MEP users have to create almost everything from scratch because so many OOTB families are object based and don't work with linked in files.  Yes, a way to convert an existing object based family to a face based family would be even better, but only if that conversion process can determine whether the family is meant to be used horizontally or vertically. In the meantime, a useful template for the work-around would be super helpful.

[adam.jw]

Any faced based family can be hosted on vertical faces.

Are you talking about OOTB Families? Because you're spot on. Seems like all the side-wall diffusers are "wall based" and are useless when using linked geometry. 

[Anonymous]

Yes, we can make a face based family work on a horizontal or vertical surface. True. But I'm talking about creating face based families. To do this, I use the Generic family face based template (because none of the electrical family templates are face based), then convert it to something electrical. But this family template assumes that the item your creating is sitting on a floor, not a wall. So, what Revit thinks is the top is really going to be the front, and what it thinks is the left side is really the top, etc. 

The extra mental gymnastics involved to make sure our item will respresent correctly on a wall get more and more tedius with each new family created.  It's inefficient and unneccessarily complicated is all.

[adam.jw]

Wait. What? Left is top?

I think you might be over thinking. Somedays I do nothing but generate Revit families. I always start out with Generic Model (Face Based), when making something that's going to go on a wall.

It requires no mental leaps at all. The "front" part of the device faces the floor, and the "back" part of the device faces the ceiling. Left is still left. And right is still right AFAIK.

Where things get tricky sometimes, I've found, is for SOME reason SOME walls my architects create confuse the "vertical face" placement mode. Occasionally I've seen my face-based devices appear on the opposite plane of the wall (i.e. inside the wall, instead of mounting to the outside). I get around this by making a section and just placing device in the section view. No big deal.

Edit: Attached is a generic model face-based family that always inserts correctly. Maybe you should name your reference planes as you create your families? It will help you remember which way the device faces when it's placed on a vertical face.

[Anonymous]

Nice family. I might ask you later about how to set up some of those parameters. Not today, though.

It seems that you're setup is the same as mine (and yes, I do label my reference planes as I go)...we're just using different words to mean the same thing.  And you're right...uh, correct: left is left and right is right. What I meant was that when you're looking at your geometry in 3D, the labels on the View Cube are incorrect. To see your object as if you're staring at it on the wall, right side up, you have to click the "Top" view. Front, according to the View Cube is actually the bottom of the object, and Back shows you the top.

I'm fairly new to Revit and to MEP - I'm an architectural transplant. 🙂  So, when I started creating families (like wall sconces), I went looking for help and found this. It's how all my families are set up now.

[adam.jw]

Here's my template. Use it for anything you want. It's all based around http://au.autodesk.com/?nd=class&session_id=6816 --- R Robert Bell put this together. He's from Sparling (a local competitor of ours) and has a really great grasp about Revit.

My template is just a single gang device and plate. Makes a good place holder, but all the annotations are in there. I use shared parameters for L/W/H etc so I can schedule out my device sizes if I need to.

It's a continually evolving family, do whatever you want with it.

And as to being an MEP transplant... welcome to the other side. Now you know how we feel. 😄 Yes that's right, no longer will you be able to create Wall based or Ceiling based families with ease (since as an architect you had direct access to the wall/ceilings) --- your only geometry you'll have access to will be linked (in most cases). 😄

I, personally, don't want there to be a seperate vertical face based family, as many of my devices are either placed on walls OR the ceiling. (Data jacks, receptacles, AV plates for projectors, etc etc).

Just get your head around how the family places on different planes and you'll be fine. Trust me, you'll get used to it, and then you won't even notice yourself modeling out families based on how the view cube vs. the placement planes work.

[Anonymous]

Actually, we were still using Acad when I was doing architectural, so I never got used to using floors, ceilings, and walls in Revit. No loss there. 🙂  I promise, though, I was always super nice to the MEP drafters and tried to get them base floor plans and rcps as soon as they were ready. Of course, we both know they're never really ready. 🙂

Thanks for the extra resources - I'll definitely use those. But- I still would like a vertical face based family template. We have wall and floor, why not have both vertical and horizontal face based? Even if the capability to switch back and forth is only in the horizontal face based, I'm ok with that. I'm pretty sure my sconces will never be put on the floor or ceiling. 🙂