Revit MEP Wishes

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jean-fredericmonod3227
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎05-13-2010
Message 1 of 22 (2,407 Views)

Add ceilings to copy/monitor

2407 Views, 21 Replies
05-13-2010 11:02 AM
MEP needs to share the ceilings in linked models. This is so ceiling based fixtures can be used, lights and diffusers can cut the ceiling ... etc When linking MEP lights back to the architecture model, no light shows in renderings because the light fixtures don't cut the ceiling. Do I really need to go back and cut all those holes out by hand ?
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CrazedEngineer
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎10-11-2007
Message 2 of 22 (2,380 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

06-28-2010 06:01 AM in reply to: jean-fredericmonod3227

Revit actually does cut the ceilings.  I ran into this problem way back.  One or two things is happening.  You aren't set to Hidden as your Visual style.  Or your fixtures are set to the exact height of the ceiling, so they don't actually cut the ceiling plane.  To fix the second of the problems change the mounting height in your family to be - 1/8" , then you will see it cut the ceilings. 

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asommer
Posts: 772
Registered: ‎08-10-2009
Message 3 of 22 (2,374 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

06-28-2010 02:56 PM in reply to: CrazedEngineer

2010?  The only way the lights will "CUT" the ceiling is if the architect places a fixture hosted to the ceiling (in the arch model).  If you are MEP and "Linking" in the arch file, the lights will not cut the ceiling, even when you host them to it.

 

The -1/8" move down will show the fixture, but the light output will still be muffled by the ceiling (still there).  If you only want to show the fixture in the rendering, the move will work, but you will have to modify every family type individually.  Pick your poison.

 

In 2011, ceilings can be copy/monitored, so you basically have an actual "Ceiling" instead of a face, and it will be cut by your light.  Diffusers should work in the same manner.

Active Contributor
CrazedEngineer
Posts: 49
Registered: ‎10-11-2007
Message 4 of 22 (2,369 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

06-29-2010 05:48 AM in reply to: jean-fredericmonod3227

These are two drafts that I have done, with everything in other models and nothing is Copy/monitored.  I apologize they are generic downlight families with factory ies files set to them. 

 

The difference may be where the light sources is set.  In the image with the down lights I had trouble with those ones because I initialy set the light source on the inside of the glass instead of the bottom so the fixture was obstructing itself.  So I am not sure why it isn't working for you guys.

 

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asommer
Posts: 772
Registered: ‎08-10-2009
Message 5 of 22 (2,360 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

06-29-2010 08:26 AM in reply to: CrazedEngineer

Ya, that's what we had to do too (put the light source at the lens).  There is a trick to the .ies files you get from a manufacturer, they already factor in the "shape" of the fixture and have adjusted the spread and intensity.  We had created some complex lights, thinking that it would give us an accurate representation of what it looks like using the renderings, but our electrical people don't trust it, because they can't see the Photometric map to compare.  We don't have IES-VE to look at this, I wish it was included.

Distinguished Contributor
thewrz
Posts: 171
Registered: ‎06-08-2009
Message 6 of 22 (1,868 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

10-05-2011 04:22 PM in reply to: jean-fredericmonod3227

My 2 cents:

 

  • "Hosted Ceiling Based" Lighting Fixture Families CAN NOT be placed on Ceilings that are in LINKED MODELS.
     
  • "Face Based" Lighting Fixture Families CAN be placed on Ceilings that are in LINKED MODELS, BUT DO NOT CUT (can't cut linked geometry). Thus, recessed parabolics and down-lights disappear above the ceiling.
     
  • WORKAROUND: Make your Architect copy/monitor your lights so they cut into the ceiling. Note: Architect must re-host the light fixture to the ceiling AFTER copy/monitoring in order for this to work. This will be a huge pain, especially for large buildings (only tested with Revit 2012). 

  • SOLUTION: Allow ceilings to be copy/monitored.

I have been using Revit MEP for 4 years now and this has to be one of the most infuriating problems I come up against.

 

We're a tech-savvy MEP firm, and we usually do lighting designs ourselves. In talks I've had with Autodesk, they seem to think that the Architect drives which light fixtures are to be used almost exclusively. This is not the case, in reality, MEP firms have a very active roll in selecting light fixtures.

 

We would love to generate renderings and host our light fixture families so they cut, but, currently, that is not possible.

 

Repost, and kudos this post, and keep this thread alive if you want to see this happen in Revit 2013.

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Please give kudos to the MEP Wish List ideas you like, as this will help the Revit development team prioritize functionality additions!
New Member
kevlar016
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎10-05-2011
Message 7 of 22 (1,848 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

10-05-2011 04:48 PM in reply to: thewrz

Lets make it happen! I'm tired of Revit MEP being the Windows Vista of the BIM world. Fix the issues you already have before you start creating next years release!

New Member
jimsmith8
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎10-05-2011
Message 8 of 22 (1,844 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

10-05-2011 06:09 PM in reply to: thewrz

I am a professional electrical engineer and this issue is a real headache. We usually spec the light fixtures and add the light fixtures to our models based on families provided by the manufacturers. More and more manufacturers are getting on the BIM bandwagon and producing quality 3D representations but when we render the drawing, the fixtures are not visible. It certainly would be nice if this gets included in the next rev.

*Expert Elite*
CADastrophe
Posts: 3,402
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 9 of 22 (1,824 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

10-06-2011 05:56 AM in reply to: thewrz

Agreed. I'm from a MEP firm that controls and designs the lighting layouts 97.163% of the time, since the architects designs the layouts almost purely on aesthetics. This would be a major function for us. We also primarily select and specify the fixture types.

 

However, we control the ceiling grids while architect always maintains control of the ceiling types. Therefore they are often in a state of constant fluctuation. The Coordination Reviewꜝ should be able to apply the changes to these ceilings with a "Modify Type" or similar action to improve the relationship's efficiency. It would have to be able to do this without changing the grid alignments.

 

The stability of the Light Fixtures and their host will need to be improved, most notably for the change between Generic Ceilings and Compound Ceilings as this change wreaks havoc on recessed lights. Some of our architectural friends like to use these as placeholders or whatever and then change them to Compound Ceilings later.

 

 ꜝ I inserted a Security Device into a linked model and then Copy/monitored it in the host project. When I changed its type in the linked file and performed a Coordination Review, I only get the options to "Postpone", "Reject", or "Accept difference".

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New Member
brenden.haskins
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎04-13-2009
Message 10 of 22 (1,802 Views)

Re: Add ceilings to copy/monitor

10-06-2011 11:42 AM in reply to: CADastrophe

I would love to see this feature as well.

 

We have the same problem with our diffusers. If we could copy/monitor a ceiling, then host our diffusers on it, it would really simplify coordination if/when a ceiling hight changes. Plus, since the diffuser would be cutting the ceiling, we could make more accurate rendings.

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