Load bearing under hatch/fill for structural plans.

[Allan-Wise]

Not having a simple, automatic way, to show load bearing under, is one of the biggest missing items in Revit for the structural drafter. Having worked with numerous Structural Engineering teams, with Revit the past 10 years. It is complained about frequently and VERY loudly. All the work around solutions we currently use have there cons and are not great solutions. 

Why it is important: It must be clear on a structural framing plan now a slab is supported. ie are the spans to great? is there a column transferring load thru a slab. Do we have adequate slab thickness for this transfer slab. The BEST way to show this clearly on a plan is to show a load bearing hatch under, see examples below.

Please add an elegant, automatic, way to show load-bearing under of our structural general arrangement plans.

Picture examples of what we are talking about:

[pkosmond]

This has been discussed for over 10 years and has many threads on several BIM forum sites.

In Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and no doubt plenty of other countries vertical elements under the referenced level are shaded to highlight they are load bearing.

The image i have attached should show this with further clarity.

Loadbearing.jpg shows structural plan. 

Loadbearing3d.jpg is a 3d of model.

Here are the issues.

1. All projects will have several types of plans (Slab Profile, Reinforcement, Post tension Layouts) so duplicating these views (And applying view template needed to incorporate load bearing elements supporting) creates significant double handing.
2. Displaying the supporting load bearing vertical elements via filled regions is very tedious as there can be multiple wall/columns which are forever changing position.

The solution is to be able to control a cut pattern at the bottom of the view range as well as the cut level already in place on a structural plan which is in Hidden view mode (yes the surface pattern can be changed if in wireframe however this creates yet another issue of framing being depicted as a solid line).

[Anonymous]

THIS.  In the US we have lots of stud projects (CFS and Wood) where the shear wall needs to be shown hatched.  It is possible but with a load of transparancy overrides, filter overrides and lots of tedious, fragile hacks.  Ideally this would help in those situations also.  

[Anonymous]

I don't see the JPEG files.  I am still not sure I understand what is being asked.

[lionel.kai]

@pkosmond: you might want to try re-posting the jpegs. Also, would having the "Pattern" v/g setting available for Structural Walls solve your problem?:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/separate-v-g-categories-for-structural-and-non-structural-...

[Anonymous]

Here is an example of one way to handle load bearing stud walls.  What the OP is referring to is a bit broader but the post below might give you some idea of what many firms do to work around the issue. 

Strategies for Stud Wall Projects

Typically you have a stud & shear wall plan.  And you need to see the shear walls below on a framing plan.  Quite logically the walls below will be hidden by the floor, so you need to make the floor transparent or wireframe view as mentioned.  Now to show the wall as hidden you have to set up and override to make the edges of the walls dashed.  But you want to highlight the shear walls.  Another override MIGHT do it if everyone is building the wall and setting the usage properly.  But in about 25% of the cases the shear wall doesn't follow the entirety of the wall.  So you need to split it and make adjustments in that regard.  Tons of hacks to get this to do what you want.  

@pkosmond It would be great if we could see your examples as well.  I think it would go a long way to explain the trouble here.  

[pkosmond]

Please find example images.

Note: all elements are structural

1. Ground.jpg - shows 4 types of structural walls. (Precast Concrete, Insitu Concrete, Block Masonry and propriety AFS/Dincel wall).

Note: I have shown wall foundations also.

2. First.jpg - shows how the wall look supporting first floor slab with a precast wall supported by first wall slab.

3. Ground as Needed.jpg - show the desired result of load bearing elements supporting a first floor slab and wall above.

My question is how to do this in wireframe and without doing filled region to create shaded load bearing walls.

Also note from first level that we do not need to know the properties of the structural wall under. As engineers it is depicted as built and just need to know that there is a load bearing element present.

[Anonymous]

Exactly!

[pkosmond]

Here is another reason why shaded walls under is important.

there may be a cantilever wall situation.

[muthomimunyua]

As we wait to get a proper solution, I have tried using filled regions, overlays and underlays. All of which have pros and cons. 
Filled regions -  The printed output is okay but dealing with changes and revisions could be extremely tedious.

Overlays and underlays - I really never understand how they work and gave up altogether.

The best get around I have so far is to have a new view (new level in wireframe) whose hatching I want to show (use the linework to get rid of all the lines) and I superimpose the two views together. This way I still get the dynamic views and the hatching. 

[Allan-Wise]

Not having a simple, automatic way, to show load bearing under, is one of the biggest missing items in Revit.

Having worked with numerous Australian Structural Engineering teams, with Revit the past 10 years. It is complained about frequently. All the work around solutions we currently use have there cons and are not great solutions. 

Please add an elegant way to show load-bearing under of our structural general arrangement plans.

Picture examples of what we are talking about:

[davidhYYC4L]

The inability to see wall hatches through slabs and floors is the problem here.

The solution could be accomplished by providing a instance parameter that marks a wall as load bearing with the ability to pick the level that it supports. Then allow those walls to show a shade hatch through the slab of their supporting level.

I have a load bearing wall instance parameter in my project template which I use to control the visibility of load bearing walls on a separate template (a view template that only shows load bearing wall hatches), but overlaying 2 plans on the sheet is a pain and only works if there are no other schedules or views on the sheet to begin with. 

Just give us a way to select/mark load bearing walls and allow us to control hidden wall hatches through slabs and floors. 

[Allan-Wise]

Load bearing under and over plan legend.

[Allan-Wise]

This video demonstrates structural load-bearing under and why it is important:

[lukedemeur]

Please please add this functionality. It would make an an enormous difference in work flow for structural drafters. If Revit could only have one last update for all time, this is what I’d ask for!! On  a multi Storey building, so many views are needed for each level, there’s not only GA plans but reinforcing plans as well!! 

[honewell]

Any update on this? This would be very helpful for structural drawings!

[muthomimunyua]

This would be quite helpful.