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Wall wrapping issue when joining a column

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Message 1 of 16
charlv
7952 Views, 15 Replies

Wall wrapping issue when joining a column

Hi all,

 

Please see attached rvt file.

 

Ive got a wall, column and door in Revit Arch 2012 Update2. Upon joining the column to the wall we get a strange result in the internal wall layer in plan view. Delete the door and the wall adjust correctly.

 

See attached screenshot. When I change the wall's layer wrapping at inserts to "Do not wrap" all components act correctly.

 

So this is a wall wrapping issue. Any ideas how to get around this?

 

Thanks Charl.

 

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: charlv

In the wall's type properties, at the list of layers, the component listed as # 5, "paint" has a check mark for "Wrap" (scroll to the right to see the "Wrap" column). Remove that checkmark, you don't need that layer to wrap; that is causing the issue.

 

Apart from that, the wall is not carefully configured. All elements are set to "Structure [1]", all three, the brick, the air cavity, and the other material, not defined, but named as "paint", even though it has a thickness of more than 4 inches.

 

But the main issue is caused by the "paint" layer, being set to wrap.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 3 of 16
charlv
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

Hi,

 

Thank you for the info however we are aware that its a wrapping issue as stated in the initial post.

 

When I turn off the "paint 2" layer's wrapping I get issues at the cavity area at the door. See attached.

 

So what we need is to keep the wrapping on and have the wall act correctly when I join the column - maybe something for the developers?

 

Regards Charl.

Message 4 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: charlv

That happens because the door family is missing a reference plane marked as "closure", located below the front/back reference plane. Once that reference plane is added to the door, the brick in the wall closes the gap properly.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 5 of 16
charlv
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

Hi. Thanks for the info.

 

I added the wall closure ref line into the family and I still get inconsistant width of the yellow layer on the one side of the wall.  On the other side of the column the layer turned white?

 

 

 

 

Message 6 of 16
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: charlv

You need to adjust the location of the 'closure' reference plane in the door family. Try with 60 mm to the South of the horizontal reference plane. That is the distance between the center line of the wall and the interior face of the finish layer in the wall type. See illustration.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 7 of 16
charlv
in reply to: Alfredo_Medina

Hi, Thanks.

 

This will do fine. ( One small issue still is that the cavity does not now join in the middle of the doorframe - but I guess its ok ) 

 

Thanks

Charl

Message 8 of 16
solidsnake_ala
in reply to: charlv

Hi ,

I have the same problem and i tried changing the wall closure reference plane in the window family but this solution is not working . i also tried to add a new reference plane to make it a wall closure but still not working please see the attachment ..

 

Please help i need a solution for this 

 

Thanks,

Message 9 of 16
chrisplyler
in reply to: charlv

charlv,

 

Please do not choose your own post as a solution. Choose one or more of the posts that helped you figure it out.

 

Message 10 of 16

Guys.  this solution didnt work with me . please help ... see the attachment

Message 11 of 16

Are you trying to achieve this?

 

structuralwall.jpg

 

Treat it like it would be built in real life. You can't have the wall continuously run right through the column as you have in your project file. Stop the wall on either side of the column.

 

Or like this?

 

structuralwall2.jpg

 

You still do the same as the previous example, but now you also need two wall types. One that wraps both at inserts and at ends (as you already have), and the other that wraps only at inserts. The one that only wraps at inserts goes by the column, then you cap off the last foot or so with the other one to get the end wrapped.

 

Either way, there is no need to "join" the column and the wall. It's not like you've got two different concrete shapes but you want to make them one monolithic shape. It's a concrete column and a wall made of other materials. They don't need to be "joined."

Message 12 of 16

Thank you for your reply ..

 

but first I have a big project and hundred of columns, i cant go to each column and create two deferent wall types it will take too much time.

 

and second with your method you will not get the plaster finish on the column.

 

Regards,

Message 13 of 16

 

Your method is something that will not exist. You are attempting to get what you want graphically without building the model correctly.

 

Okay I've figured out a working method that fixes everything correctly. You need the two wall types. One as you already have it, and a second one that is duplicated but has all wrapping turned off. You also need to add an un-associated void into your column family, constrained to the same planes as the concrete geometry, and set the family to "cut with voids when loaded." This combination solves the problem correctly.

 

Please note that you do not have to go around "creating" the second wall type for every column instance. You only have to create it once. The only thing you have to do at each colum instance is split out a small area of the first wall and put a bit of the second wall in its place. And once you make the void in the column (do this as the second step) and re-load it with all parameters every instance will immediately cut properly.

 

In the image below, the column is cutting the wall with a void, not being joined to it (note that the wall is continuous and so the plaster is as desired on the exterior...only those parts of the wall that intersect the colum are being cut out). This is an accurate representation of what happens in real life when this project is constructed.

 

wrapatcol1.jpg

 

 

Here you can see where I added in the non-wrapping wall type only in the immediate area of the column and how it solves the wrapping problem.

 

wrapatcol2.jpg

 

I'm sorry you may not have time to impliment this, but it is a proper solution to your problem.

Message 14 of 16

Thank you so much chrisplyler for your concern . i found a better solution and i would like to share it with you .. which is to join the column with the wall and then split the wall in the center of the column. 

 

Regards,

 

 

Message 15 of 16

Aha! That's much more simple! I was worried the split line would show in elevation views, but it doesn't seem to.

Message 16 of 16
DavidsDesk
in reply to: chrisplyler

When a niche cuts more than half way into a wall but not all the way thru this was a problem for us. Looks like there was some improvement to this in Revit 2017 but when Wrapping at Inserts is set to (the side getting cut) still have a problem...    getting closer though! Kind of related, can we get wrapping to work in section views? Smiley Wink

wall fix.jpg

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