Use of Revit for Renovation and Rehab work

[RyanBakke7479]

Hello all users and all autodesk employees. I would like to propose a focused thread or forum exclusively for the discussion of all things Revit and Rehab projects. There are some very frustrating things that occur when using Revit to document architecture projects in conjuction with rehab work. I am of the opinion that this is a very important area of architecture that is currently not being well documented by Revit users, Revit software vendors, Revit training specialists or by autodek itself.
The world has a huge stock of existing buildings, how can we iron out the duplicity of work that is currently required in order to use Revit in conjunction with rehab/renovation work.

It is my hope that this can be a productive and rewarding discussion.

Thank you in advance,

Ryan Bakke

[Anonymous]

What are some of your problems? Revit is working fine for me on my
rehab/renovation projects.

Craig VanDevere, AIA

"RyanBakke7479" wrote in message news:6293042@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Hello all users and all autodesk employees. I would like to propose a
> focused thread or forum exclusively for the discussion of all things Revit
> and Rehab projects. There are some very frustrating things that occur when
> using Revit to document architecture projects in conjuction with rehab
> work. I am of the opinion that this is a very important area of
> architecture that is currently not being well documented by Revit users,
> Revit software vendors, Revit training specialists or by autodek itself.
> The world has a huge stock of existing buildings, how can we iron out the
> duplicity of work that is currently required in order to use Revit in
> conjunction with rehab/renovation work.
>
> It is my hope that this can be a productive and rewarding discussion.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Ryan Bakke

[Anonymous]

Please find attached a work in progress survey, indicating the adhoc wall
shape and thicknesses.

How do you model this up....

The building is a hotel, converted to pub. there are panel walls, thick
stone walls, stud walls, masonry walls...

"cdv" wrote in message
news:6293125@discussion.autodesk.com...
> What are some of your problems? Revit is working fine for me on my
> rehab/renovation projects.
>
> Craig VanDevere, AIA
>
> "RyanBakke7479" wrote in message news:6293042@discussion.autodesk.com...
>> Hello all users and all autodesk employees. I would like to propose a
>> focused thread or forum exclusively for the discussion of all things
>> Revit
>> and Rehab projects. There are some very frustrating things that occur
>> when
>> using Revit to document architecture projects in conjuction with rehab
>> work. I am of the opinion that this is a very important area of
>> architecture that is currently not being well documented by Revit users,
>> Revit software vendors, Revit training specialists or by autodek itself.
>> The world has a huge stock of existing buildings, how can we iron out the
>> duplicity of work that is currently required in order to use Revit in
>> conjunction with rehab/renovation work.
>>
>> It is my hope that this can be a productive and rewarding discussion.
>>
>> Thank you in advance,
>>
>> Ryan Bakke

[Anonymous]

I would start with a generic wall and make it whatever thicknesses that are
needed. Where some of the thick block sections are I would use architectural
rectangular columns, again make sizes to match the blocks. The
architectural columns take on the characteristics of the walls that they are
attached to.

"Paul Tiss" wrote in message
news:6293437@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Please find attached a work in progress survey, indicating the adhoc wall
> shape and thicknesses.
>
> How do you model this up....
>
> The building is a hotel, converted to pub. there are panel walls, thick
> stone walls, stud walls, masonry walls...
>
> "cdv" wrote in message
> news:6293125@discussion.autodesk.com...
>> What are some of your problems? Revit is working fine for me on my
>> rehab/renovation projects.
>>
>> Craig VanDevere, AIA
>>
>> "RyanBakke7479" wrote in message news:6293042@discussion.autodesk.com...
>>> Hello all users and all autodesk employees. I would like to propose a
>>> focused thread or forum exclusively for the discussion of all things
>>> Revit
>>> and Rehab projects. There are some very frustrating things that occur
>>> when
>>> using Revit to document architecture projects in conjuction with rehab
>>> work. I am of the opinion that this is a very important area of
>>> architecture that is currently not being well documented by Revit users,
>>> Revit software vendors, Revit training specialists or by autodek itself.
>>> The world has a huge stock of existing buildings, how can we iron out
>>> the
>>> duplicity of work that is currently required in order to use Revit in
>>> conjunction with rehab/renovation work.
>>>
>>> It is my hope that this can be a productive and rewarding discussion.
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance,
>>>
>>> Ryan Bakke
>

[ToanDN]

I had asked the exact same question a while ago and got no better answer than the one cdv gave you. I really wish Revit would come with variable width generic wall family. That would make working with existing building a lot easier and much more efficient.

[RyanBakke7479]

Thank you for your posts so far.
I have attached a simple file that shows current difficulties with getting streamlined documentation of existing-demo-new construction information where you do not have to resort to "tricks".

Please view the sheet file in the RAC2010 file.

Thank you in advance for any advice or tips.

-Ryan

[mbuonocore]

Too bad the link is saved in RA2010 and cannot be opened in 2009 which is what I have.
Another downfall of the product.....can't back save.

[CADdaddy.com]

Wow, I can see your frustration. The openings are clearly demo'd were the new windows are to be located but the walls appear solid on elevation. There is also clearly no way to see these "new" elements in your elevation since new items are "not displayed" using Filter1. After playing around with this scenario I would do 2 things:

1. Change the Graphic Overrides for "demolished" items to a hatch pattern on their project/surface. This way the demolished scope does appear on elevations. This would also help with floors because it would clearly show the extent of floor removal. I'd be interested if someone could try this on a full-blown project to see if there are any unforseen problems with this tactic. I've attached the file with the change I've suggested.
2. Add notes at new window/door openings (or a general note on the plan) that says to refer to new construction layout plan for exact dimension of new openings.

I've been wondering how people are dealing with relocating things like doors and windows? Does anyone have any tips on how to deal with that aspect of rehab work? Right now I just demo the existing item and add a new with just a comment in the new that says "relocated".

James LeVieux

[Anonymous]

For the elevation #4 Demo - from new, use the Show All, phase filter then
you can see and dimension everything, see the attached rev file.

"RyanBakke7479" wrote in message news:6296675@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Thank you for your posts so far.
> I have attached a simple file that shows current difficulties with getting
> streamlined documentation of existing-demo-new construction information
> where you do not have to resort to "tricks".
>
> Please view the sheet file in the RAC2010 file.
>
> Thank you in advance for any advice or tips.
>
> -Ryan
>

[RyanBakke7479]

James,

The graphic override works very nicely, you can even change it to a solid white fill as well. This could work quite nicely.
I am still at a bit of an impasse on the Revit native dimensioning ability of the geometry (holes, infill walls).
In a comment to item 1) You mentioned the graphic overrides on floors where new openings are cut in a new phase in an existing floor. That is another area of frustration currently, where you cannot use the very nice tools of shaft openings to, for example, keep an existing elevator shaft that you will be filling in coordinated across multiple floors. When you infill the openings with a new floor, it has been my experience that Revit is unable to figure out which floor to display regardless of override settings.


In an answer to your question on relocating existing objects. What you are currently doing seems to be the best option. If your relocated object is taggable with a custom instance parameter that indicates it is "relocated" rather than new, at least you could automatically tag it.You could then more easily cross check your quantities of relocated versus demoed items in a schedule as well.

[CADdaddy.com]

I looked at cdv's option and did not like it for a couple of reasons:

1. On the elevation it graphically unclear (to me) that the openings are intended to be demo'd.
2. If new items are shown -- they may appear in front of existing/demo items and obscure exisiting/demo information....see attached Rev2

James

[RyanBakke7479]

Yes, I am able to see and dimension everything, but unfortunately this sort of graphics is not clear to a contractor or owner and is not useful for construction documents. What James suggested with the view overrides is helpful for construction documents. If I try to merge both ideas into one workflow the following is what I get:
I can dimension the No. 4 Elev as you have suggested with a phase filter of 'show all'. When I switch my phase filter to anything else, as soon as the geometry of what I am measuring is not displayed, then suddenly my dimensions will be hidden as well.

[rightdesign]

A lot of the work I do is residential alterations & minor additions, often jobs with just a small budget so documentation costs have to be kept low. Having used both AutoCAD and Revit (since '06) for this kind of work I would suggest that AutoCAD LT is the most cost effective way to go. Revit is great for a complete new building, but modelling small budget projects when the existing building shape is complex is just too time consuming.

[Anonymous]

Another possible solution is to to use the in place component modeling tool.
There is a wall category. This will allow you to create walls of any
thickness and still allow them to be scheduled.

"Paul Tiss" wrote in message
news:6293437@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Please find attached a work in progress survey, indicating the adhoc wall
> shape and thicknesses.
>
> How do you model this up....
>
> The building is a hotel, converted to pub. there are panel walls, thick
> stone walls, stud walls, masonry walls...
>
> "cdv" wrote in message
> news:6293125@discussion.autodesk.com...
>> What are some of your problems? Revit is working fine for me on my
>> rehab/renovation projects.
>>
>> Craig VanDevere, AIA
>>
>> "RyanBakke7479" wrote in message news:6293042@discussion.autodesk.com...
>>> Hello all users and all autodesk employees. I would like to propose a
>>> focused thread or forum exclusively for the discussion of all things
>>> Revit
>>> and Rehab projects. There are some very frustrating things that occur
>>> when
>>> using Revit to document architecture projects in conjuction with rehab
>>> work. I am of the opinion that this is a very important area of
>>> architecture that is currently not being well documented by Revit users,
>>> Revit software vendors, Revit training specialists or by autodek itself.
>>> The world has a huge stock of existing buildings, how can we iron out
>>> the
>>> duplicity of work that is currently required in order to use Revit in
>>> conjunction with rehab/renovation work.
>>>
>>> It is my hope that this can be a productive and rewarding discussion.
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance,
>>>
>>> Ryan Bakke
>

[SeanBurke]

Ryan,

I haven't opened your file but I think I have a solution to your issue. If you set the Phase Filter to Show Previous + Demo, then select the demo portion of the wall and Unjoin it from the existing to remain portion of the wall... you'll have edges to dimension to. Shaded with edges will really make the demo pop, but you could also adjust the Graphic Overrides to bump up the lineweight for projected lines, and add an override to the surface pattern with something like 45deg single lines.

I hope this helps.

Re-use/Relocation needs to be addressed in future versions of Revit for sure. Especially relevant when you are trying to document for LEED.

One other issue to add to this growing list is my pet peeve of not being able to phase paint. When you use the Paint tool to override a face's material, the paint takes on the phase of the original element, regardless of which phase you applied the tool. It may not be a common issue all architects face, but retail customers are beginning to use Revit to manage the life and maintenance of their stock. When a completed Revit model already exists, it would be helpful to renovate it without completely destroying the integrity of the existing conditions for the purposes of documentation.

I do, however love the fact that you can insert/bind an existing Revit model and the elements will take on the properties of the current view's phase.

--
Sean D Burke, Assoc AIA, LEED AP
sdb consulting
BIM, CAD and Sustainable solutions training and implementation
Read my blog -> Paradigm shift
Follow me on Twitter -> @seandburke

[jdagen]

In the Revit original Revit file you show the Revit help file and discuss the oddity of placing a new window 'near'  the old one. Have you tried copying the existing window to the clip board, demoing it, and then pasting inplace in the new construction phase? You should get e new winfow in exactly the same place. You can then swap it if necessary, if it is to be a different type of manufacturer. Just a thought. I have a BIG frustration with phasing, & demoing on projects with repedetive units that use groups for the repdetitive units. It is a nightmare to say the least. 

[jdagen]

Copying and pasting windows and doors, between phases for 1to1 replacement does not work. The reason is in the existing phase the windows and doors are hosted to the existing wall when they are corpied to the clipboard. When they are pasted back into the new phase in place, after the existing window and doors have been demo'd, they won't host to the resulting infill wall, they host to the overall existing wall that they were hosting to when they were copied to the clip board, leaving the infill wall passing through them. What I have come to, is for 1to1 replacement, it is much easier to add a project parameter for 1to1 replacement, and then use that parameter with filters, to have the same window display differently in demo, existing and new construction drawings. It eleminates a lot of work and headache.