Two Problems (Bugs?)

[gsucci]

Hi all,

1- If my floor plan is on Coarse, my walls' material default to the Object Style setting, that is, ALL WALLS will show the material set up in the Object Style. This is bad, because I made some finish tags that were supposed to read the material type mark of the specific type of wall, and now they all read the same material. Switching to Medium or Fine is not an option becuase of the extra lines we get, and because we are using fire rated grafics for some of the walls.

2- I created a multi category tag, and setup a project parameter that is apllied to everything. Floors are checked as well in the list. In plan, I can then tag everything EXCEPT floor elements...Why?

Revit 2008, 20070607_1700, Win XP

Thank you

regards

Gio

[Anonymous]

1. - The behavior you are describing appears to be the way Revit was designed to work. The only way around it would be to overide the graphics in each individual view that you want these to appear in a different manner.

2. Can't answer. Never tried that global a tag before.

[Anonymous]

Almost.
Walls have a Coarse level of detail fill pattern and fill color. This is not
asigned by material, but by wall type.

Does the floor have the correct filter parameter associated with it?

wrote in message news:5759570@discussion.autodesk.com...
1. - The behavior you are describing appears to be the way Revit was
designed to work. The only way around it would be to overide the graphics in
each individual view that you want these to appear in a different manner.

2. Can't answer. Never tried that global a tag before.

[gsucci]

Yes, I am aware of the coarse graphic override by wall type, but why Revit assignes to ALL the walls the same material is probably a programmers oversight (if you do not want to call it "bug").

Matterofactly, in a 3D view, Coarse detail level, all walls display the proper material, as surface pattern or cut pattern.
The use of the Object Style material for all walls happens only on 2D views...

About the floor filter parameter, don't you check the filter parameter when you create the tag family? The floor are checked in the list of elements that my project parameter is assigned to...

thanks

gio

[Anonymous]

No. Not the overrides. The wall property....
Not all walls are assigned the same material. Unless the user decides to
leave them set to . However, that is irrelevant to this issue.

wrote in message news:5759765@discussion.autodesk.com...
Yes, I am aware of the coarse graphic override by wall type, but why Revit
assignes to ALL the walls the same material is probably a programmers
oversight (if you do not want to call it "bug").

Matterofactly, in a 3D view, Coarse detail level, all walls display the
proper material, as surface pattern or cut pattern.
The use of the Object Style material for all walls happens only on 2D
views...

About the floor filter parameter, don't you check the filter parameter when
you create the tag family? The floor are checked in the list of elements
that my project parameter is assigned to...

thanks

gio

[gsucci]

Well, that is precisely related to my issue.

I am trying to tag the materials of different walls in a coarse detail level floor plan.
However, no matter what material is assigned in the structure of the walls, the tag reads only the material specified in the Object Styles settings.
This happens with any tag reading materials, like the keynote by material tag.

I find this a confusing behaviour, which serve no purpose because all wall materials are set to one material.
I wonder when you would need that.

Setting the view to medium or fine does restore the regular behaviour, because tags properly read the wall's material (or wall's layers material).

thank you

regards

[Anonymous]

...as I recall, you can set a view to fine. Tag the elements and then return
to a coarse view. The tags stick. ...but I'm just going off the top of my
head right now. I'll have to give it a spin tomorrow in the office.

The coarse view really can't tag materials, because several materials could
be nested in the space of the coarse fill.

wrote in message news:5760909@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well, that is precisely related to my issue.

I am trying to tag the materials of different walls in a coarse detail level
floor plan.
However, no matter what material is assigned in the structure of the walls,
the tag reads only the material specified in the Object Styles settings.
This happens with any tag reading materials, like the keynote by material
tag.

I find this a confusing behaviour, which serve no purpose because all wall
materials are set to one material.
I wonder when you would need that.

Setting the view to medium or fine does restore the regular behaviour,
because tags properly read the wall's material (or wall's layers material).

thank you

regards

[Anonymous]

I was incorrect. The tags stay, but they pick up the coarse wall caregory
material.

To solve your problem, simply create a tag whicvh picks up one of the other
fields available in the wall - such as comments. Or add your own Coarse
Scale Material parameter as a shared parameter.

"Aaron Rumple" wrote in message
news:5761218@discussion.autodesk.com...
...as I recall, you can set a view to fine. Tag the elements and then return
to a coarse view. The tags stick. ...but I'm just going off the top of my
head right now. I'll have to give it a spin tomorrow in the office.

The coarse view really can't tag materials, because several materials could
be nested in the space of the coarse fill.

wrote in message news:5760909@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well, that is precisely related to my issue.

I am trying to tag the materials of different walls in a coarse detail level
floor plan.
However, no matter what material is assigned in the structure of the walls,
the tag reads only the material specified in the Object Styles settings.
This happens with any tag reading materials, like the keynote by material
tag.

I find this a confusing behaviour, which serve no purpose because all wall
materials are set to one material.
I wonder when you would need that.

Setting the view to medium or fine does restore the regular behaviour,
because tags properly read the wall's material (or wall's layers material).

thank you

regards

[gsucci]

Thank you Aaron,
yes, that is the problem.

However, if you think about it, finish plans will need to show different finishes on the same wall, but maybe different sides, therefore a single material for the wall would have not worked in all occasions.

I am trying to find a unified finish tagging system, and the most logical way is to use materials and their identity built-in parameters. I am trying to use the least amount of custom parameters.

In this way, setting the view to medium allows me to access all layers of the walls, which, if properly built, can show specific materials on either sides. The extra lines of the walls' layers are absorbed by the line weight, expecially at 1/8" scale, so the extra details are not a big problem.
For walls painted only partially, the only way I found is to split the wall in two, and assign a different type (and therefore, material) to the portion of the wall I want to paint differently. Unfortunately, the split region tool does not work in plan view, that is, once the wall is split, the tags do not read the split face material. This also does not work if you simply paint a face of a wall and then try to pick up the new material with a tag. The tag will read the material under the structure of the wall, and not the material painted with the paint tool.

But, all in all, I think I am pretty much there, since floors now work perfectly using the split face tool, and painting different materials for each floor finish.

I created a material tag, with different types for walls, floors and millwork material tagging. In the future, we will be able to complete all information in the material parameters, and create a complete schedule of finishes for the project.

Thank you again,
any further advices or comments on finish plans is welcomed, of course,

regards

gio

[Anonymous]

Have you tried to override the visibility of the View?

Make your view a Medium or Fine level of detail, so the wall's materials
show up.
Type VV, and on the visibility graphics overrides window, select "Walls"
category and expand it, turn off "Common Edges".

The only concern is, if your tag is reading material, what prevents you
from tagging the finish, instead of the structure?
--
Sean D Burke, Assoc AIA
Technical Consultant
Autodesk Consulting - Building Solutions
visit - www.autodesk.com/consulting

gsucci wrote:
> Thank you Aaron,
> yes, that is the problem.
>
> However, if you think about it, finish plans will need to show different finishes on the same wall, but maybe different sides, therefore a single material for the wall would have not worked in all occasions.
>
> I am trying to find a unified finish tagging system, and the most logical way is to use materials and their identity built-in parameters. I am trying to use the least amount of custom parameters.
>
> In this way, setting the view to medium allows me to access all layers of the walls, which, if properly built, can show specific materials on either sides. The extra lines of the walls' layers are absorbed by the line weight, expecially at 1/8" scale, so the extra details are not a big problem.
> For walls painted only partially, the only way I found is to split the wall in two, and assign a different type (and therefore, material) to the portion of the wall I want to paint differently. Unfortunately, the split region tool does not work in plan view, that is, once the wall is split, the tags do not read the split face material. This also does not work if you simply paint a face of a wall and then try to pick up the new material with a tag. The tag will read the material under the structure of the wall, and not the material painted with the paint tool.
>
> But, all in all, I think I am pretty much there, since floors now work perfectly using the split face tool, and painting different materials for each floor finish.
>
> I created a material tag, with different types for walls, floors and millwork material tagging. In the future, we will be able to complete all information in the material parameters, and create a complete schedule of finishes for the project.
>
> Thank you again,
> any further advices or comments on finish plans is welcomed, of course,
>
> regards
>
> gio

[gsucci]

Sean,
the common edge tip is good, actually, never thought of that...

The problem with tagging walls' material is that, again, in plan view Revit does not "read" the material applied to a face of a wall using the paint tool. It reads the materials applied to the structure, not the material "painted" on a face.

We would have to tag wall finishes in interior elevations views, which is not our standard. Also, we do not elevate ALL walls, but I guess many walls will have a "standard" finish which we can call out in a note.

For floors, instead, split regions work pretty well, because I can split the regions I need, paint the finish and tag it nicely.

Too bad split regions are designed to work in a weird way. They need to be drafted in "loops", sketch lines cannot intersect, etc. This makes a complex floor pattern quite tricky to edit afterwards, because editing some sketch lines of a loop may disrupt (delete) the sketchlines of a inner loop of regions.

Ideally split regions should be sketched as one object, instead of several loops. You start sketching and the only rule I see necessary is that each line needs to start at the edge or on another sketch line, that is, you cannot have isolated vertices, a point used only by one sketch line. Anything else should go.

Lets say you need to model a checker board. As split regions stand in 2008, you will have to split first all rows (or columns) then split every single bar into squares....Not sure what is the purpose of these limitations. Just have sketchlines intersect each other, as long as Revit can find enclosed regions at the end...For the checker board, all you would need to do is draft rows and columns, and Revit should be able to find all single squares...

Also, split regions should be their own category (or at least a floor sub-category), so that we can turn them off in regular plan views which do not need floor pattern to show.

Anyways, my finish plans are getting too complicated to complete using a fully smart tagging system. I will have to go back to instance parameter tagging for walls and wall bases, and sometimes just generic annotations...

thank you for the help,

regards

gio

[Anonymous]

I agree we 'should' be able to tag paint. But, it is a graphical
override only. It would be difficult to tag even if the software was
designed for that because it has no thickness. It's definitely a request
that's been filed with the development team. I just can't say when or if
it will get in to a future release.

You floor finishes do sound complex. Might I suggest using a pattern,
rather than breaking the entire surface into little squares? Hatch
patterns are relatively simple to create, once you have the know how.
There are even a few applications that let you graphically define hatch
pattern files.

Or... use a ceiling to represent your floor finishes. This trick is
nice, because it allows you to splash finishes into a room without
manually defining edges. And, it will update as walls are updated.

--
Sean D Burke, Assoc AIA
Technical Consultant
Autodesk Consulting - Building Solutions
visit - www.autodesk.com/consulting

gsucci wrote:
> Sean,
> the common edge tip is good, actually, never thought of that...
>
> The problem with tagging walls' material is that, again, in plan view Revit does not "read" the material applied to a face of a wall using the paint tool. It reads the materials applied to the structure, not the material "painted" on a face.
>
> We would have to tag wall finishes in interior elevations views, which is not our standard. Also, we do not elevate ALL walls, but I guess many walls will have a "standard" finish which we can call out in a note.
>
> For floors, instead, split regions work pretty well, because I can split the regions I need, paint the finish and tag it nicely.
>
> Too bad split regions are designed to work in a weird way. They need to be drafted in "loops", sketch lines cannot intersect, etc. This makes a complex floor pattern quite tricky to edit afterwards, because editing some sketch lines of a loop may disrupt (delete) the sketchlines of a inner loop of regions.
>
> Ideally split regions should be sketched as one object, instead of several loops. You start sketching and the only rule I see necessary is that each line needs to start at the edge or on another sketch line, that is, you cannot have isolated vertices, a point used only by one sketch line. Anything else should go.
>
> Lets say you need to model a checker board. As split regions stand in 2008, you will have to split first all rows (or columns) then split every single bar into squares....Not sure what is the purpose of these limitations. Just have sketchlines intersect each other, as long as Revit can find enclosed regions at the end...For the checker board, all you would need to do is draft rows and columns, and Revit should be able to find all single squares...
>
> Also, split regions should be their own category (or at least a floor sub-category), so that we can turn them off in regular plan views which do not need floor pattern to show.
>
> Anyways, my finish plans are getting too complicated to complete using a fully smart tagging system. I will have to go back to instance parameter tagging for walls and wall bases, and sometimes just generic annotations...
>
> thank you for the help,
>
> regards
>
> gio