Site works in Revit 2014

[FinearcLtd]

Hello there,

I am attaching a image that shows existing site condition that I need to build in Revit. The Revit subregion is too schematic for my needs, I need something more precise. I tried using Siteworks by EaglePoint, as you will can see in the image, but it turned out to be impossilbe for such complicated road contours. Any ideas as to how one can build proper existing roads on an existing site terrain? I tried using floors but that takes ages to fit all the heights to the terrain, and then, making the sidewalks is even more complicated this way. Any suggestions?

[SteveKStafford]

Precise could require Autodesk's Civil 3D or somebody else's civil engineering application. Revit's site tools have only ever been meant for basic context. Hopefully that will change. That written, people have demonstrated their infinite patience and their seemingly unlimited available time and produced very detailed site models within Revit. They probably wouldn't described it as having been fun, easy or fast. In the end the result probably didn't meet the notion of precise, depending on its definition.

If I haven't completely bummed you out, you might get there using some combination of the site tools like Split Surface, multiple toposurfaces, massing, roofs with shape editing (or floors but roofs support edge based sweeps better). It would probably help if you can import surfaces exported from Civil 3D assuming you have access to someone that is producing the civil engineering documents and a survey?

Good luck!

[FinearcLtd]

Thank you for your reply! I am not concerned with the intentions of Autodesk. I am a professional architect and what I need is a complete solution. Civil 3D is a complex software that suits the needs of road planners. What we need are adequate tools for 3d construction of existing and new site conditions. I am currently using Siteworks by EaglePoint which is not bad but also not good enough. However, I am deeply concerned with Autodesk's tendency to rely on plugins. For us professionals it is extremely difficult to run a practice with so many plugins rather than having a single solution that is a complete, well thought through, architectural software. I can use many other solutions for building sites but they will not be BIM compatible and will not allow for editing as one progresses with the design. If you lose that, you lose all the advantage of BIM!

[Alisder.Brown]

Revit is a BUILDING design software. As mentioned, it has site tools, but it is not a CIvil program!

You can achieve what you are trying to do with patience but from an architectural perspective, it is not necessary to do the Civil work. You have the 2D work for your site and Location plans, that is the important, there is no need to do the 3D work to an insane level of detail, its called OVERKILL. It would be like modelling screws, washers and gaskets, unnecessary in 3D, but all the info can be input in 2D. Reduces time taken to create, reduces file size, reduces screen punches aha and you still get the exact same construction output, only downside is you dont get as pretty a render as you would like. 

Revit IS a well through through (BIM) Architectural software, as well as structural and MEP. What you are trying to achieve if of a different discipline, hence the limited Civil tool in the Architectural software. 

You are correct, it would be great if we had one software that did everything, but that is not easily achievable. And Autodesk combat this by giving us "Suite workflows" and countless useful Add-ins along with a bucket full of online cloud tools.

[aghis_no]

You can use the following approach:

1. First, you create the topo-surface in REVIT.

2. Then, you Import the "AutoCAD 2D dwg" and you use the lines defining the roads to SPLIT the topo-surface in order to create different topo-surfacessurfaces per plot.

3. Then, you move the topo-surface of the roads some centimeters lower that its actual position in order to create the height difference between the sidewalk and the road surfacesurfaces (roads or plots). This will give you better graphics for the thickness in you section views.

4. Next, you export the roads topo-surface in a "3D AutoCAD dwg" format and re-import it back again in an in-place mass family located in the same place as the topo-surface of the roads.

5. Then you start a new in-place family (site category) creating "solid sweeps" for the sidewalks by picking the 3d edges of the re-imported 3D AutoCAD file (in the mass family) of the roads and using the profile you wish for the sidewalk's edge. This is the most time consuming part since you will have to pick many edges… However, since the profile of the sidewalk, once extruded in the sweep, will cover pert of the topo-surface you are not obliged to follow with an extreme precision the 3D edges. It will be much easier to create the sweeps in a view were all the original topo-surfaces are not displayed in order to be easier for you to pick the edges of the imported 3D AutoCAD geometry.

If you are interested in one specific plot, and the rest of the site is modeled for rendering purposes only: in "step 1" you can eventually simplify the initial topo-surface that is far away from the specific plot you are interested in (using very few points and thus creating a les triangulated AutoCAD 3D export) and use more point near the plot.

Hope this helps
aghis

[FinearcLtd]

I thank all of you for your replies, your desire to assist is much appreciated. However, all of the offerend solutions are known to us and for our needs they are much too time consuming and inaccurate. You cannot split surfaces into more than two parts, so that this idea doesn't really work when there is a road system creating several loops. I have seen many inventive solutions in the web, including an API that turns toposurface into a floor, but I trully expect Autodesk to offer a simple and user friendly built in application for this task. I do not think that this is a far fetched requirement! If I could write this application I would!

All the best to all of you for offering your knowledge and empathy...

[Chris.Aquino]

As mentioned, the topo surface tool was not designed for detailed site modelling. Having said that, the following blog post has good steps for creating curbs and gutters which follow the topograpy.

Curb and Gutter Along Topo

Having said that, we are always looking to make our products better, and the following link is setup for you to submit feature requests, or feedback, directly to our Development group:

Product Feedback

I encourage you to use the feedback link as our Development group is always interested and would like to hear your feedback directly, since you are better suited to state the business case for a feature request.

http://bimtionary.blogspot.com/2010/02/curb-and-gutter-along-topo.html

[FinearcLtd]

Thank you again for your replies. As said, the workaround methods do not provide a serious professional solution. When the existing road is more complex it is impossible to split the surface since the splitting requires more than two parts. Currently, Revit allows for splitting into two parts only!

[FinearcLtd]

Thank you Chris,
Unfortunately, your suggestion is not a proper solution for the actual need:

A. Editing is painstaking, which makes the design process the exact opposite to the Revise Instantly idea behind Revit.

B. Splitting suits the single situation of two parts, whereas in most design conditions that is not the case.
A better tool is definitely needed. I am sure other architects will agree with me.


Architect Eyal Bleiweiss

Finearc Architects Ltd. www.fa-arch.com
Cellular 972-54-4215204 Tel 972-77-7867861/2
31a Hatchelet Street Hod Hasharon 45264 Israel

[MKEllis]

The problem is that Revit is aiming at BIM rather than being merely a 3d modelling tool that is capable of fudging a representation of 3d site context. To do site context the BIM way really leaves you with specialised site or infrastructure as the only option.

I can see the issue you are having, and have been frustrated at it myself, but I can also see the issues with bringing a 'full' suite of site modelling tools into revit when such packages already exist.

[FinearcLtd]

An architectural software should and can be a complete solution! Other site works solutions are not compatible with Revit, so what good is there for Revit users in their existence? Architects need a fairly good and user friendly site tool as much as they need the conceptual mass tool. We do need the sculpting of landscapes and roads as part of the design process. I am very sorry, but that is our everyday reality, whether we like it or not!