scrap the legend editor

[kwg06516]

All I wanted was to create a general detail to show the relationships between a toilet and the grab bars with dimensions.

But with the plan views of grab bar and toilet componnents oriented in the opposite directions this is impossible.  Why?  Because we arean't allowed to do something as simple as rotate a componnent in the legend editor.  Either somebody thinks they know better than me how my drawing should work or they didn't work hard enough to implement the ability.  

It's becomming a sore point with me the limitations of Revit and I'm not talking about what's removed in the LT version.  How do I create a detail that isn't part of the model?!?  The legend editor is so limited and there's no alternative scrapbook place where I can do this.  I'm forced to create a toilet and a grab bar set somewhere off the plan BUT IF DO THAT IT SCREWS UP MY COUNTS!!

Why do you care if I want to rotate something in the legend?

[SteveKStafford]

Perhaps what you really need is a drafting view or an enlarged floor plan created with a Callout? Legend Views were created for a very narrow purpose and unfortunately they don't work very well with all content configurations. They are a lackluster addition to Revit in need of redesign. The can be very useful because they can be placed on more than one sheet as long as their limitations don't get in the way.

[kwg06516]

Creating detail views using cropped plans and elevations is what I've been doing. What's frustrating is it's not easy to transfer from project to project or build into a template since it's partly composed of actual objects and spaces within the project.

What Revit needs is a scrapbook place where you can build things that don't apply to counts and all the editing features are available. I tried creating a detail line copy of the components in the legend editor and you can't even pick lines in a component!

I guess all the legend editor is good for is creating graphical lists of objects and it's not even good at that. If you want a legend with windows tagged by type the way architects have been doing since Og invented the wheel you're plum out of luck! You have to fake the tags with detail lines and text and remember to change them if you change a window's type mark.

[SteveKStafford]

You may not be familiar with the technique yet but many people use Phases and views to manage "live legends". There is a RevitForum.org BLOG Post that describes how to do this. It also describes two other approaches use Design Options or Parts. I personally find Phases works well but I know a few people that prefer using Design Options.

Using Phases and Views you need two phases in front of the actual project phases. You place all the components you want to appear in legends in a view assigned to the earliest phase (let's call it Legend Phase). Then you create another view and assign its Phase to Legend Demo. Then you demolish all the components you placed in the earlier phase (using the other view). This means that none of the components will show up in any of the real project views nor in any schedules etc.

Now you can create elevations and plan views that show the various components, like a window plan and elevation set of views for window legends. The can be tagged and dimensioned etc because they are real elements instead of the symbolic representation we get in Legends. Btw, Legend components are different so they can't affect schedules etc.

[kwg06516]

I will try this next project.

[todd.ault]

Why must we continue to do "work arounds" for flawed programming.  I do not understand why legends cannot work like any other view. We should be able to rotate objects, see them in 3d, cut a section, Tag, Keynote, etc.  Why would Autodesk put so many limitations on such a potentially powerful tool?  It is sad that I am using the same "work arounds" that I did back in Revit v6 before Legends were even possible.  Sorry about the rant, but I have been waiting for 10 years for Autodesk to fix this obvious limitation.

[SteveKStafford]

As long as software exists there will be work arounds because there are more of us than them. 🙂

Legends haven't generated enough angst among users that in turn translates into people inside Autodesk making a decision that this must be fixed, as a priority over many other things. Using Legends is definitely a disappointing experience when compared to how we'd like them to work.

In the meantime, to get work done, using Phases (or Design Options) to manage a majority of live legends is so effective (the results, not necessarily the burden of process or overhead associated with them) that we could argue we don't need the Legend feature, at least as is.

Then again for simple things that we want to show on multiple sheets like fill pattern legends or typical notes a Legend works pretty well. Revisiting a Legend view occasionally to keep them in sync with model elements isn't onerous and probably still a bit more automatic than whatever we used prior to Revit.

Many families do work in Legends as symbolic information. Keep in mind that a presiding factor in the developement of legends was that families needed to be symbolic ("not real") because of scheduling concerns. We don't want legends to affect quantities. It's the Face Based family content that really falls apart in legends. The view orientation of face based content varies according to the orientation of the surface the family thinks is normal.

I'm not certain but I think Legends predate face based families, which were introduced primarily to resolve MEP content and linked model relationships. If correct that means they created a connundrum for Legends but have not made it a priority to reconcile it. Probably because doing so involves a total rewrite of the concept and probably revisiting other deeper constraints in the code (or as some developers and designers call it Lurking Evil, existing code relationships/requirements that prevent the introduction of a new or rewritten feature).

Well, enough of my 0.02 cents... hopefully they'll take a serious look at legends sooner than later.

[kwg06516]

But the legend editor can't even do legends properly.  Look at this.

Two different light fixtures from two different sources who didn't orient their families the same way when they built them results in an awkward layout when you can't do something as simple as rotate a family.  And look how it does wall receptacles.

Are you kidding me?  I actually sent out a job looking like this because I couldn't figure out how to get rid of the host wall or at least hide it.  I didn't have time to scratch build one out of detail lines and my boss came back with "What the F are all these bars"?  Because you don't show the walls on a legend like that! Sometimes Revit is like that guy whom Louis CK talked about crossing five lanes in heavy traffic because he missed his turn.

"I HAVE to... I don't know what to DO... other than go up two blocks, make a left and come back, but that's not my thing."