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kooldabiz
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎11-03-2011
Message 1 of 9 (444 Views)

Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

444 Views, 8 Replies
10-15-2012 07:07 PM

In the Equipment Schedule below, notice that JB Test-1 recognizes it's room location (Mail Center Rm 147), but JB Test-2 does not.  In the Elevation below the Equipment Schedule you will see that JB Test-2 is only 6" above JB Test-1.  The Junctin Boxes are a face based family component I pulled out of the Revit library and are both Electrical Equipment category.  Reference 3D snip below elevation.  Need to have lots of JBs above ceilings and have Equipment Schedule indicate where they are.  Any help on this would be greatly appriciated.

 

Revit Issue-3 Equip Elevation-Location.PNG

 

Revit Issue-3 Equip Elevation-Location-2.PNG

KOOLDABIZ
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rosskirby
Posts: 882
Registered: ‎04-08-2008
Message 2 of 9 (428 Views)

Re: Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

10-16-2012 06:07 AM in reply to: kooldabiz

I believe the default height for newly created rooms is 10' AFF.  Per your image, the second JB is above 10', and therefore not in the room.  Try increasing the height of the room (even if that means it goes above the ceiling height) to see if that fixes the problem.  Just be careful when doing this, because if you're using the volumetric properties of the room somehow, those numbers will be off if you're calculating the volume of the room above the ceiling.

Ross Kirby
BIM Manager
Arcturis
*Expert Elite*
CADastrophe
Posts: 3,401
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 3 of 9 (422 Views)

Re: Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

10-16-2012 06:43 AM in reply to: kooldabiz

Within a few of our above-ceiling families, we have added a secondary 'elevation offset' parameter that raises only the the model elements of the family to above the ceiling, via user input. As long as the origin of the family still resides within the Room, it should still be reported as being in that Room by the Schedules.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Contributor
kooldabiz
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎11-03-2011
Message 4 of 9 (408 Views)

Re: Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

10-16-2012 01:28 PM in reply to: rosskirby

You are correct.  When I select the room the Properties dialog indicated a ceiling height ("Limit Offset") of 10' for all rooms.  I increased it to 12' and the Junction Box that was at 10'-6" showed up on the Equipment Schedule.  As a quick check I also found that if the room Name & Number shows up after Location under General in the Junction Box Properties dialog it will also show up on the Equipment Schedule and vice-a-versa. 

 

At this time I don't have a need to calculate room volume so I'm good with your fix for now.  If and when I ever do I will try the technique in CADastrophe's response.  

 

Thanks for the great tip. It really helped me a lot. 

KOOLDABIZ
Contributor
kooldabiz
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎11-03-2011
Message 5 of 9 (405 Views)

Re: Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

10-16-2012 01:31 PM in reply to: CADastrophe

That sounds great.  Could you send me instruction for adding a secondary 'elevation offset' parameter?

KOOLDABIZ
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CADastrophe
Posts: 3,401
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 6 of 9 (396 Views)

Re: Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

10-16-2012 02:06 PM in reply to: kooldabiz

The following explains the procedure to modify the "Out Of The Box" Duplex Receptacle Family to add an elevation offset to "push" the model above the ceiling.

 

1. Open the Family and navigate to the "Ref. Level" View, located under Floor Plans in the Project Browser.

 

2. Open Visibility Graphics and go to the 'Annotation Categories' tab. Turn on the Dimensions Category. Close V/G.

 

3. Find the two "EQ" dimensional constraints and delete them. This will allow you to move the other elements away from the origin.

 

4. Select the two bottom and the top two Reference Planes and move them up about a foot. The receptacle model will follow.

 

6. Create a new Reference Plan and draw it horizontally through the center of the receptacle. Doesn't have to be perfect.

 

7. Create a new dimension ("DI") and click on the newly created Reference Plane and then the origin plane below. Place the dimension.

 

8. Select the dimension and go to the Label pull-down list on the Options Bar. Select "<add parameter...>". Name it and make it an Instance Parameter.

 

9. Create another dimension. Click on the new Reference Plane, then on the one above it, and then the one below. Place it and click "EQ".

 

10. Repeat the above step for the remaining Reference Planes. The order of the clicks is very important.

 

11. Go to Family Types (the icon with the four blue squares) and set the value of your parameter to 0' - 0" for each Type. This sets the default value.

 

Save it as a separate Family as not to overwrite the original. Load into a Project to ensure that it works. The process should be the same for your J-Box. If you run into any trouble, please post that file.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Contributor
kooldabiz
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎11-03-2011
Message 7 of 9 (354 Views)

Re: Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

10-18-2012 08:02 PM in reply to: CADastrophe

Once again you dazzle me.  I followed your directions on my junction box family (Component) and it worked.  This along with what rosskirby said earlier in this string about the Limit Offset and volumetric properties is helping me understand how Revit can perform so many functions.  So I want to make sure I understand why it worked and have a couple of questions in that regard:

 

1.  Does the Origin Plane somehow know what the Room 'Limit Offset' and the Component 'Elevation' has been set at and actually recognize it as a limit?

 

2.  Following your directions in the Family, was the objective to 1) break the component away from the Origin Plane (the fixed plane that won't move) and 2) provide a way to adjust the distance between the component (extrusion) and the Origin Plane (move it above it as required)?

 

See my Diagram-1 Electrical Equipment Properties below.  You'll notice I named the dimension you had me add between the newly created Reference Plane and the Origin Plane is called Above Room 'Limit Offset' (Elevation).  I named it that to remind myself that those are the terms Revit uses to name the same thing depending on what properties dialog your are in.  At least it seems that way to me.  Also see Diagram-2 Room Properties below.

 

Your technique seems to sort of fool Revit into thinking that the Component is still at or below the Component Elevation and room Limit Offset , when it can actually be higher by the amount entered in my Above Room 'Limit Offset' (Elevation) parameter (2' 0" in the Diagram below).  Wheeeeew!  How am I doing?

 

Diagram-1 Electrical Equipment Properties

Rm Limit Offset vs. Equip Elevation-1.png

 

 

Diagram-2 Room Properties

Rm Limit Offset vs. Equip Elevation-2.png

KOOLDABIZ
*Expert Elite*
CADastrophe
Posts: 3,401
Registered: ‎08-28-2009
Message 8 of 9 (337 Views)

Re: Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

10-19-2012 06:27 AM in reply to: kooldabiz

kooldabiz wrote:

"1.  Does the Origin Plane somehow know what the Room 'Limit Offset' and the Component 'Elevation' has been set at and actually recognize it as a limit?"


There are three Reference Planes (one in each axis) that are marked 'Defines Origin' under Properties, with the intersection of these planes being the Family's Origin point. This point defines where the family is located with a Revit Project - it has nothing to do with the actual model elements/extrusions. If this point lies within the Rooms limits, then Revit recognizes that the element is in fact within that Room.

 

The exception to this is the new feature (introduced in Revit 2013) Room Calculation Point that only exists with select Categories. This allows you to redefine the relative point of the Family which controls where Revit determines it's location. There's a nice little video in that WikiHelp link.

 

 


kooldabiz wrote:

"2.  Following your directions in the Family, was the objective to 1) break the component away from the Origin Plane (the fixed plane that won't move) and 2) provide a way to adjust the distance between the component (extrusion) and the Origin Plane (move it above it as required)?"


That is correct. As explained above, the origin defines how Revit determines the location of the Family. This technique simply controls the model elements of the family separate from the origin, thus permitting the element to visibly appear above the ceiling, but in actuality still exist at the basic Elevation within the Room.

 

Another issue come about if you wish to Tag an element's elevation. In Revit, you can't. That is, with the standard functionality, anyway - I think I've heard of ways to accomplish this via 3rd party programs (search this forum and I'm sure you'll find it). But if you could, the elevation would be based on the origin and thus, will report an 'incorrect' value if your model is pushed above the ceiling. So, yet another work-around that I've developed to accurately Tag an element's elevation is explained in >this post<.

 

 


kooldabiz wrote:

"Your technique seems to sort of fool Revit into thinking that the Component is still at or below the Component Elevation and room Limit Offset , when it can actually be higher by the amount entered in my Above Room 'Limit Offset' (Elevation) parameter (2' 0" in the Diagram below).  Wheeeeew!  How am I doing?"


Yeah, there are a number of work-arounds that seem to 'fool' Revit in order to accomplish necessary tasks. You seem to be grasping things pretty well, but keep in mind that Revit is like an eternally-evolving puzzle (in some aspects) and there is likely more than one way to accomplish something that not readily obvious. The techniques I have developed are a result of the need and requirements I have met at my job, and they work for my situation very well. I actually come from the MEP side of Revit, where there are many more work-arounds. And from there, the Electrical side, which is *almost* a joke, it's so underdeveloped and limited at this point. And sorry if my responses are a little too long-winded!

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Contributor
kooldabiz
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎11-03-2011
Message 9 of 9 (319 Views)

Re: Room Location not Recognized by Equip above Certain Elevation

10-19-2012 09:51 AM in reply to: CADastrophe

These explanations pull a lot together for me and help me better understand some of the published text on families and building 3D components.  I will be trying your workaround for accurately tagging the elevation using the solution you provided in this post.  Thanks a ton for providing it.

 

Your explanations are not long winded, they are consise and complete.  This forum has been really helpful to me, but I can tell you that there are a lot of good intentioned folks writting solutions that leave you frustrated because they miss one are two key pieces of information that leave you hanging.  Often it's a simple 'how to' or 'where to click' that would keep you going.  You always provide that.

 

My Revit improvement wish list is growing every day.  However, my partner and I are starting to do a lot of small hospital projects here in California where the State regulatory agency is one of the toughest in the world and are blowing people from administrators on down with the 3D graphics and BIM information they are not used to seeing.  We are using it to show we would resolve some of their challenges.  The issues you've helped me solve have filled in some holes that are big to us and as a result are speeding things up significantly.

 

Note: In case you have time to critique it I've attached my Junction Box family.

 

Thanks again.

KOOLDABIZ
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