Point Cloud in Revit 2014 not working in Revit 2015

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Hi, I have produced a survey in Revit 2014 from a Point Cloud which was converted to an RCP file in Autodesk Recap, and it works perfectly, however, when I try to open it in Revit 2015, the point cloud cannot be found. If I relocate the point cloud, it looks like it loads, however it doesnt. If I delete the link and try to load the point cloud again in Revit 2015, that doesn't work either. The origin of the pointcloud is very far away so I am bringing in the cloud using the 'center to center' option. Any advice would be very helpful, Thanks, Peter.

[scott.a.green]

This issue has been reported and logged in Autodesk´s tracking system. A product enhancement will be considered and scheduled by the Product Design and Development Team of Autodesk. 

Currently there are two possible workarounds available to overcome this issue: 

Workaround 1:

The most obvious and most trusty workaround is to use Revit 2014 for adjusting point clouds. 

Workaround 2: 

1. Insert  Point Cloud in Revit 2014
2. Save the project file in Revit 2014
3. Open the saved project file and update it in Revit 2015

Please, note: This works only in some cases.

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Thank you for your response unfortunately I cannot use workaround 1 as my client doesn't have revit 2014 they only have revit LT 2015. And I have already tried workaround 2 and this doesn't work, as soon as I open in 2015 the cloud doesn't work as it can't find it even though the path hasn't changed .

[scott.a.green]

   In your opening post you stated that this Revit point cloud was from 2014, is your client on a subscription? If so, they can download Revit 2014. 

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Yes I think my client has a subscription, however, they have aleady done work on the project as it was a survey that I supplied and hence their file wouldn't be 2014 compatible.

Can you advise if this point cloud problem I am having is an issue with 2015 or is it something I did to cause the problem ?

Also, I am about to start a new project, again a point cloud survey. The point cloud will have national grid co-ordinates, and I would like to take it into revit with these co-ordinates, however, in the past I have had problems taking in such point clouds as the co-ords are usually very far away from the origin. I read somewhere that there was a limit in Revit of about 40km x 40km, is this still the case? If I try to take a point cloud with such Grid Co-ordinates using Origin to Origin, it doesnt come in, it will only work using Centre to Centre importing. Am I doing it incorrectly?

Thanks again for your response.

[maciejwypych]

Hi,

The Revit limit is about 33x33km but it doesn't really matter.

As always, in Revit there is a workaround 🙂

If you have a cad survey with your point cloud, you'll need to link the file, centre to centre, accuire the coordinates from the file, detach, and link the file again by shared coordinates. Now link the pointcloud by shared coordinates and it will be located in the correct position.

If you don't have a cad survery, you can read the cooridnates of a few points in recap and draw them in ACAD.

Hope this helps,

Maciej

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Thanks Maciej,

I really appreciate your help, I am not 100% sure I get what you mean. The point cloud wont have a cad survey with it so if I use your suggestion am I correct in doing as follows - 

1. Create a CAD survey in AutoCAD by Importing the pointcloud and drawing a few references lines etc.

2. Remove the Point Cloud from the CAD drawing.

3. Link the CAD file in the Revit File.

from there I am a little lost sorry - 

4. Accuire the coordinates from the file - Not sure how to do this?

5. Detach the CAD file.

6. Link the CAD file again using Shared Coordinates - Not sure about this, will look it up as I don't really know much about Shared Co-ordinates.

7. Link the Point Cloud by Shared Coordinates -?

Thanks, Peter.

[maciejwypych · Accepted solution]

Hi Peter,

First of all, there is definately of problem with 2015, some of the pointclouds that work in 2014 are not visible in 2015.

But if you have access to 2014, you can link the pointcloud in 2014, and link the 2014 revit file into 2015 and then it works perfectly, so there is no need to start work you from scratch.

Actually if you don't have a cad survey to worry about, you can skip the cad import step. I've simplified the workflow a bit, see below and you can check out this screencast - https://screencast.autodesk.com/main/details/424a937e-4ae6-463b-9e32-e624954881f8

1. You need to take a note of coordinates and elevation of a point inside a pointcloud (use one somewhere in the centre)

In Revit (use 2014 until Autodesk witll come up with a fix for 2015)

2. In a True North oriented view, Draw a model line

3. Go to Manage>Coordinates>Specify Coordinates at Point

4. Select an end point of the line you've drawn

5. Input the coordinates you've noted.

6. Link the point cloud

7. Save the file.

8. Open Revit 2015

9. Link the Revit file you've created choose Cenre to Centre

10. select the file and go to Manage>Coordinates>Acquire Coordinates

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Hi Maciej,

Thank you so much for your help, it has been invaluable to me. I really appreciate all the effort and am looking at your screencast now.

Kinest regards

Peter

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Hi Maciej,

I have tried doing as you showed in the tutorial and am nearly there, however, I have hit a couple of snags when import the cloud in Revit 2014 that maybe you can help with?

1. The point cloud won't import unless I first change the Revit Project Units to M from MM. When I try to import the cloud while the units are set to MM it does nothing, by changing the units first to M in revit, the cloud imports correctly. Then I can change the units back to MM to start drawing. This isn't a problem, just wondering if this is normal?

2. The only real problem I am getting is that when I import the cloud using your method, the X and Y coords seem to be correct but if I try to create a new Level, the level noted isn't as I would expect it to be. For example, when I create a new level for the Ground Floor of my building (which I know from the scan is about 21m high above sea level), the Level it creates is noted as being 908 or close to 0, which I know is incorrect. I want it to display the actual correct (sea) level of the floor.

Please see the attached screen capture. 

Your help would be greatly appreciated again,

Regards

Peter

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Hi - I was just wondering if anyone can help with my last post please?

I have been able to import a point cloud using shared co-ordinates as per the instructions, and x and y come in fine, however, the z levels are not what I am expecting. Please see my previous post - point 2

The problem I am getting is that when I import the cloud using your method, the X and Y coords seem to be correct but if I try to create a new Level, the level noted isn't as I would expect it to be. For example, when I create a new level for the Ground Floor of my building (which I know from the scan is about 21m high above sea level), the Level it creates is noted as being 908 or close to 0, which I know is incorrect. I want it to display the actual correct (sea) level of the floor.

Can someone please advise as I am about to start a really large project with 5 point clouds and I need to start it correctly?

Please see the attached screen capture - 

The level I created here is noted as being 

[maciejwypych]

Hi Peter,

If you have specified the elevation when you've specified your coordinates at point, then I'm guessing that the Elevation Base in your levels is set to Project Base Point instead of Survey Point.

Go to a section or elevation, select one of the levels

Go to Edit Type and change Elevation Base to Survey Point

Also, you'll need to make sure that the spot elevations are set todisplay the Elevation Base taken from the survey point as well.

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Hi Maciej

thank you so much, that is exactly what the problem was - I would never had found that if it wasnt for your help. Thank you so much.

If you don't mind I have 2 more question please?

1. I am trying to convert one of the pointclouds I got from the surveyor from Leika unified PTS format to ReCap / Revit - I have been able to convert all the other pointclouds I got for this project apart from a basement scan which is actually 14gb in size - the other scans are about 7gb max - most of the cloud converts fine but there are a few scans missing on the exported file. Could this because the file is quite large at 14gb? - I can maybe get the surveyor to export the PTS into two parts.

2. This building I am doing is quite large (5 storey) - the structure is concrete cols and beams at quite small centres - with an external cladding which differs a lot between - brick, tiles, render, glazing. I am thinking of starting by producing the col and beam structure and then creating panels of wall families for the external cladding elements as they are so different around the building, it would take forever to make specific wall types for each external panel. Do you think that would work in your experience?

If you are unable to help with these 2 questions I understand completely. I am just so grateful for the help you gave me with my original point cloud importing problem.

Many thanks

Peter

[maciejwypych · Accepted solution]

Hi Peter,

No problem, happy to help.

1. 14GB is actually not that big 🙂 I've worked on an airport project, where the scans have been absolutely massive.
If you check "show scan locations" in Recap, do the locations show, but the point cloud data is missing? Or both are missing?
If you can identify which locations are missing, you can go back to your surveyor and ask him to export only these locations.
Also, make sure that all scans are actually loaded in revit (there is a little plus sign next to the rcp project file in the manage links window. click on it to show individual rcs files)
2. There is no straightforward answer to this one. It really depends what you are going to do with the model at a later stage.
For the existing walls I usually use a model in place walls, so I don't need to create hundreds of wall types - with this workflow, you need to make sure that you don't create a one giant wall for a whole floor, because you'll have problems getting doors in, but if you split it every now and then, it will work just fine.

But if you will need to assign parameters to existing walls, or you will be demolishing wall layers, there is no other way, but to create a type for each wall.

Kind Regards,

Maciej

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Hello again Maciej,

thanks again for your advice. The surveyor and I reckon the scan wasnt exported correctly from cyclone so he is doing it again today for me, and I am sure that will solve my importing problem. My PC has 32 gb of ram and the other scans are working beautifully so there's no reason why the 14gb file shouldnt work.

Regarding your advice on modelling, in place families is the way I was hoping to do this so, I will take your advice on that too.

I really appreciate your help with this,

Kind regards

Peter

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Hi Maciej,

I am hoping you can give me one more piece of advice if you dont mind as your advice so far has helped me so much with the survey project I am doing?

Regarding extisting concrete stairs - I have 4 storeys of stairs which are all different, and I have tried using the sketch stairs and component stairs systems but they just dont do extactly what I need for an existing stairs - as the risers and landings can be different heights etc, if I compare steps to the point cloud data, some steps can be up to 50mm off what's there due to the fact that different runs may have different riser heights etc.

Because of this I was going to just model the stairs using in place families - and put them in a floor category -

My question is - Have you done this in the past for existing stairs, ie is the anything wrong with doing this? I know I can add rails later myself, it's just that it may be frowned upon not to create stairs using a stairs component ?

I look forward to your advice on this.

Thanks

Peter

[maciejwypych]

Hi Peter,

When working with existing stairs, you may need to create some additional types for the stair run, with a more "relaxed" method of calculation and max riser height, so it will be easier to adjust the riser heights to match the point cloud. Unless the riser height vary within one run, you should be able to model it correctly using the stair tool.

Also, it's the same thing as the walls. Try to figure out if the existing stair will be modified at any point in the future? If you will model it as a in place family, it will be a pain to change it on a later stage. Existing stairs are usually just demolished and rebuild, but sometimes there is a change of finish, or some cladding added. Do you know at this stage?

It's always necessary to think a bit ahead, when you do your model. And balance the level of detail and model flexibility that is actually necessary in a particular project.

Hope this helps,

Maciej

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Thanks Maciej,

again your advice is invaluable to me, and will take it as always. I am going to use the stairs by sketch again rather than the in place models as I don't know what the client's intentions are for the development and I want to do as good a job as possible for them. One of my issues was the unsider (monolith) wasn't finishing into the floors correctly, but from giong through forums I have found that making landings will solve this problem. There are various types of suspending ceilings and ceiling drops under the stairs and landings which I will have to figure out how to show as they are different on differnt floors and I also dont want to go overboard with the detailing. I have so many other questions I would love to ask about this project but don't want to burden you with them so I will just keep at it.

I have attached a screen capture to show you what I have done on the project so far. It's getting there slowly but surely!

Regards

Peter

[maciejwypych]

Hi Peter.

That looks like a good progress. I'm happy to help if you have any other questions. I'd just suggest to start a different post if it will not relate to the point cloud directly, so it's just easier to track.

Kind Regards,

Maciej

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thanks Maciej,

I will do so.

Regards

Peter