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Parts list

17 REPLIES 17
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Message 1 of 18
Anonymous
1121 Views, 17 Replies

Parts list

Is it possible to build a cabinet in the family editor, that accurately includes all parts needed to build that cabinet in real life, and then have Revit give you a parts list that tells you dimensions, material etc. for each part. Material takeoff gets close but doesn't deal with individual cabinet parts.
17 REPLIES 17
Message 2 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

braincage- nice user ID..

it's possible to build most anything in the family editor..

but for certain kinds of mechanical parts- you might
want to use inventor..

Edited by: Discussion_Admin on Mar 5, 2010 6:09 PM
Message 3 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 14:03:48 -0800, braincage1 <> wrote:

>Is it possible to build a cabinet in the family editor, that accurately includes all parts needed to build that cabinet in real life, and then have Revit give you a parts list that tells you dimensions, material etc. for each part. Material takeoff gets close but doesn't deal with individual cabinet parts.

Yep. You have to build the cabinet family exactly how you would build it real
life, which is vastly different than how the default OOTB cabinet families are
built. The OOTB cabinets are simple extruded forms with some panels for the
doors plopped on.

You would begin by creating separate families for all of the carcase parts
(sides, bottom, back, shelves, top stretchers) with length parameters as
required. Cabinet carcase materials are simple sheet goods, such as 3/4"
melamine-coated particleboard (MCP) or high-quality prefinished plywood. You
would probably have to use the Split Face tool to apply (and tag) a laminate
finish to the exterior faces.

You would nest them together to create a parent cabinet family, and set up
linked parameters from the parts to main family to create parametric types for
width, height, exterior and interior finish, and so on.

You can do the same for the drawers and doors as well - create parts for the
sides, front and back, and hardware, then nest them together into a drawer
family that is parametric.

If you set up various door and drawer front configurations (flat panel, raised
panel, etc) you can set up Family parameters which would allow you to swap out
door and drawer styles easily.

Set the nested families to be Shared via Family Category and Parameters > Family
Parameters > Shared so that the individual parts can be scheduled.

Then, for good measure, you can create a detail component family for a cabinet
section and insert it into a section view, so any cabinet sections are almost
already done - just add your notes.

I've been meaning to do this in Revit myself. I did something similar in AutoCAD
with Dynamic Blocks, and it made casework design and layout a breeze, but it
didn't have parametric flexibility as in Revit (although I bet it could with
2010's new constraints system).

The downside for this high level of detail is that the family size would get
very large, and because of all of the extra faces created, would take longer to
render.

But it would kick total butt.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com
Message 4 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Matt - Thanks for the detailed reply
I'm gonna give it a shot and see how far I get
Message 5 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi again,

Ive completed the cabinet with every piece parametric but Ive hit a dead end with swapping out drawer and door styles as described below by Matt.

If you set up various door and drawer front configurations (flat panel, raised

panel, etc) you can set up Family parameters which would allow you to swap out

door and drawer styles easily.

Ive been trying this within the parameter properties and the type of parameter being the loaded Generic Model but Im not getting very far.

Any suggestions on how to easily switch these guys out?

Thanks
Message 6 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

braincage1-

with all due respect- it's time for someone
to be honest with you and say that what
you are talking about does not make any
sense for revit..

revit architecture is for constructing
buildings.. the only reason you include
a cabinet or a refrigerator or something
like that is to show its location and size
in relation to the project.. there is no reason
to model hinges and locks or anything like
that.. those kinds of things are referenced
in a schedule with manufacturer model
numbers and any other information about
the element..
Message 7 of 18
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: Anonymous

Revit's abilities for creating parametric families and scheduling components make it a very good application for other types of businesses. A company that designs and manufactures millwork cabinets can benefit a lot from Revit. Or a furniture company, or a lighting fixture company, you name it, they can make a good use of Revit as well. What's wrong with using Revit for these activities?

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com

Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 8 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

> What's wrong with using Revit for these activities?

revit was not designed for those kinds of activities-
but inventor was.. if you need those kinds of elements
included in a revit projects you need to create them
using inventor and then bring them into the revit project..

if all you are doing is creating things like light fixtures-
you need inventor not revit..
Message 9 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Vector 2

I wouldn't mind looking at Inventor but... I have neither the time to learn a new product and I especially dont have $5,500 laying around. What I do have is Revit and a pretty good grasp of how it works. You say Revit wasn't designed for these activities and yet it only took me a day to create a fully parametric cabinet with a corresponding part list. This has opened up all types of avenues for where I can take my business. I was hoping for something a little more constructive than a sales pitch for Inventor.
Message 10 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

> avenues for where I can take my business.

i don't know anything about what tools somebody
can or cannot afford- but the only good advice in
business is to use the right tools.. otherwise the
competition using the right tools will put you out
of business..
Message 11 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Here's my rule of business. The Customer should always be happy.

Revit can do all the things my customers need for $5500. Why would I double the price by telling them to add Inventor even though it is completely extraneous? Im not going to get a lot of customers that way...

I know Revit can do what I'm asking it to do...I've seen other projects with it implemented. Im just asking for some help.
Message 12 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

why would anyone want to "include all parts needed
to build a cabinet in real life" on construction documents
for a building? this is something new to me..
Message 13 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I believe you are being a little short sighted here...this has nothing to do with Construction documents for a building. I'll lay out where I'm going with this...

AutoCAD back in 1982 was originally intended for use in laying out Architectural plans in 2D, but other industries such as the furniture, cabinet and lighting industries adapted AutoCAD, perhaps with a simpler user interface, to help design their products and send it to manufacturing. Some 3D rendering capability was always needed on the side to provide the customer with some eye candy.

Now Revit is the new standard bearer for architecture and perhaps it can be used in the same way that AutoCAD was for the previous generation. I think its a worthy goal to find out.
Message 14 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Braincage,

Load both drawer and door panel families into the parent Cabinet family.

Add a Cabinet Door Style instance parameter to the parent family, and make it a
Family Type: Casework parameter.

Place a door family of your first type.

Select the door and associate it with the Cabinet Door Style parameter.

All other families of the same type will be available in this slot.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:49:46 -0700, braincage1 <> wrote:

>Hi again, Ive completed the cabinet with every piece parametric but Ive hit a dead end with swapping out drawer and door styles as described below by Matt. If you set up various door and drawer front configurations (flat panel, raised
>
panel, etc) you can set up Family parameters which would allow you to swap out
>
door and drawer styles easily. Ive been trying this within the parameter properties and the type of parameter being the loaded Generic Model but Im not getting very far. Any suggestions on how to easily switch these guys out? Thanks
Message 15 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

First off, AutoCAD was not designed or originally intended for Architecture; it
was designed as a general-purpose CAD application and that is where it is today.
From the beginning it was as comfortable at drawing 2D plans as it was as
drawing mechanical gears.

And V2 is right in that Inventor CAN build your casework components and put
everything together. In fact, it will fully create the hinge assemlies, sink,
faucet, valves, door handles, drawer slides, and the little adjustable base
feet. Which is probably *slightly* more stuff than you need, so it may or may
not be a practical solution.

But the fact is that almost any 3D application can do what you want. I've done
lots of complex casework assemblies using both SketchUP and AutoCAD, and they've
worked fine. In all of these apps, you can nest components/families/blocks to
build more complex assemblies. And both SketchUP and AutoCAD allow you to add
parametrics (via SU's Dynamic Components and AutoCAD's Dynamic Blocks) that
would allow one cabinet assembly to respond properly to changes in width and
configuration.

Inventor can easily produce automatic final annotated drawings of all of the
parts. In SketchUp, AutoCAD and Revit you can do this but requires a manual
layout of individual components. All will get you to a final set of shop
drawings.

That said, the parametric family aspect of Revit means it is still pretty good
at what you need. And it can be loaded into an architectural model a little more
easily.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:57:47 -0700, braincage1 <> wrote:

>I believe you are being a little short sighted here...this has nothing to do with Construction documents for a building. I'll lay out where I'm going with this...
>
>AutoCAD back in 1982 was originally intended for use in laying out Architectural plans in 2D, but other industries such as the furniture, cabinet and lighting industries adapted AutoCAD, perhaps with a simpler user interface, to help design their products and send it to manufacturing. Some 3D rendering capability was always needed on the side to provide the customer with some eye candy.
>
>Now Revit is the new standard bearer for architecture and perhaps it can be used in the same way that AutoCAD was for the previous generation. I think its a worthy goal to find out.
Message 16 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks for the info. Those options seem viable for for what we intend so i'll see if I can get the green light from HQ to spend some time and resources looking into them.
Message 17 of 18
jamodeo000
in reply to: Anonymous

Im going to make a nuanced point here, 

 

IT IS TRUE INVENTOR IS THE PROGRAM DESIGNED FOR THIS, 

it even has content libraries full of various types of bolts, countersunk holes, bearings, "intelligent" sheet metal based on gauge not dimension, framing profiles, according to the national or international standards agency of your choice. Every solid body in an inventor "family" is ideally split into its own seperate part file. 

 

BUT... you CAN do it in Revit if you really had to.. or if you are like me and you just want to hack the program to do more and more things.

By using nested shared families, which allow you to schedule separately, or even create exploded assemblies in the project. 

I have absolutely seen contract drawings with sections/details cut through the bathroom vanity, specifying various toe kick materials, hinges, knobs, paint colors, shims, caulking beads etc, in houses with special custom-built cabinets done by a subcontractor, where a "home depot vanity" was not desired, or even something simple such as a slab of marble with exposed plumbing underneath. It is the contractor's responsibility to decide if they are able to take on this custom cabinetry work when they are deciding whether to bid on the job.

 

In short, use shared nested families. Make another version with Unshared families when scheduling prebought products. decide what Revit Categories you want nested parts families to fall under, I myself wonder if a door panel qualifies as "Casework" or "Generic Model" because maybe technically the entire finished product is the Casework. 

Message 18 of 18
cchayerWEAKD
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks for your post it's been helpful to change to different door handles on my cabinet. How could I get this to populate in my casework schedule? I just want the name of the handle to come up on my schedule so we can get a simple takeoff of how many of a particular handle we need to buy.

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