New Phase Line Colors in PDFs versus wall section materials

[ZanePaxton3471]

This has been driving me crazy for a while (since Revit 2009).  I have contacted Autodesk Tech Support and Ideate Tech Support on this with no apparent solution and apparent bafflement.

Revit 2013 (All-in-one version).

I do a lot of remodel work where being able to differentiate the existing phase from new work is fundamentally critical.  Here's the issue, when I publish a PDF (becoming the norm) the linework for the new work is gray.  So is the existing phase.... so it is difficult to easily understand what is new and what is existing because they are both gray lines.  This is with the new phase set to the default "By Category".  Apparently the default line color for new phase object's projections is gray; for the life of me this is hard to fathom why that is trhe default. I've had clients, contractors and other architects complain about this over and over.

With the default condition with the new Phase set to "By Category" this what I get:

1. New versus existing is all gray on gray (Bad)

2. Materials on cut sections are shown as expected.  (Good).

3. Transparent materials (glass) are shown in views as transparent (Good).

Now, if I go back into the Manage/Phases and change the new phase setting to "Overridden" to change the projected lines to BLACK then the following occurs:

1. New versus existing is black versus gray (VERY Good)

2. Materials on cut sections turn all solid black. (VERY BAD).

3. Transparent materials (glass) are shown in views as OPAQUE (Bad).

Now, if I change the cut section override to none, then the layers of materials on a wall disappear entirely (all white, no material layers at all).  This then leaves one to manually (2D) draft in regions over a sectional view of a wall with material indications.  This is manual and requires a huge amount of effort where it should be automatic.  During the course of a project, with walls moving around and changing, that work-around could require lots of labor to chase the changes around like in the old days of AutoCAD. 

So it appears that the choice is either live with the gray on gray phases (which is VERY problematic) or to do alot more manual drafting to make the cut sections look as needed.  Autodesk Tech support responded that this is "what normal looks like".... 

Does anyone have a way to get the new versus phases to be different (i.e. black = new and gray = existing phases)and still have the cut section materails show up???

Thanks in Advance.

[scott_d_davis]

"Apparently the default line color for new phase object's projections is gray"

Out of the box settings have line colors set by object style, as any of the Phase Filters that one would use out of the box are set to By Category.  The only way linework of an existing object in a view would be grey would be if Object Styles for that item were set to grey.  I just check and the majority are set to Black, while some are set to a greenish color, but no grey.

Would you please tell me if colors/lineowrk looks correct on screen, but when you print to PDF, then the colors are wrong?

Something else to note In your example below, when you are setting an Override, you have paid attention to the Cut Pattern override, but not the Material Override.  The material called "Phase-New" is set to use a fill style for cuts that is solid black. That looks to be why your walls are showing solid black fill.

[ZanePaxton3471]

When I open the View Graphics, all of the categories are set to Gray projection lines (see attachment). That appears to be the default (Global) condition. I would expect that the default would be black. It would be great if that could be changed globally because changing each and every view is tedious and it's easy to miss a few and then there are inconsistencies....

If I understand you correctly, a work-around would be to go into all the object categories and change the baseline settings to black rather than the default gray projection lines?  I tried changing the global object settings of Generic Objects to a #4 black projection lines with little difference in the individual views.  i.e. pulling up the VG and changing say the generic models to projection lines #4 black.  That doesn't change the individual views. Curiously, if I do the same object setting change while within a particular view, it does make a difference on screen.  That implies that I need to change each and every object type's graphic override settings for each and every view?  That sounds exhausting.

Would you please tell me if colors/lineowrk looks correct on screen, but when you print to PDF, then the colors are wrong?

Generally, but only slightly, the new items are easier to see a black lines on screen than in a PDF or when printed.  The difference is more obvious when zoomed in of course.  I frequently turn off the heavy lie weights view when working because I can't see the lines and intersections otherwise.

When the material is overridden in the "Phase-New" then the walls are empty; i.e. no layers or materials at all.  My work-around is to draft materials and layers back in manually with the 2D regions, a tedious and I think should be unecessary task.

OK, changing each and every view to show the new object categories in a specific way manually is probably easier than drafting in the materials on cut sections manually, but I'd really prefer this to be done globally and once.  This is really a global settings issue that apparently can only be corrected in a very tedious way and only if I do it with great discipline the same way everytime perfectly with a fair amount of effort.  Is there a way to reset this globally???  I still don't understand the logic or want to accept that the default setting for new phase objects is gray rather than black.   (sigh...). Being able to change the global setting solves the problem which is why I'm being emphatic.  I strongly suspect that the rest of the world would also expect new phase objects to be black rather than gray.

[scott_d_davis]

"I strongly suspect that the rest of the world would also expect new phase objects to be black rather than gray."

Default out of the box settings do use black lines, and use black lines for "new" objects. I'm not sure why your "default" settings have everything shown in grey. If you go to Manage Tab>Object styles, it doesn't look like the attached image? Nearly every object style here is set to black, and some are set to another greenish color, RGB 000-127-000

Edit:  additonally, in your attached image, the "grey box" next to the "no Override" for the color, isn't really showing that the object is grey.  Thats the "color" it uses to display "no override".  Think of it as "clear"....

[ZanePaxton3471]

See the attached screen shot of my Object Styles settings; all the line settings are generally black with no Gray anywhere.....  but within the View Graphics within a apecific view, they are gray as a default...

[scott_d_davis]

that's not a "grey override"...thats a "no override 'clear' ".  It's meant to be the same grey as the default Windows Dialog Box Grey, so that it appears as "no color" override has been applied,

[ZanePaxton3471]

OK, another test.

Which in the sheet view, I opened VG and set the generic models to lineweight 16 and black.  That does not translate into the views or a PDF.  (Attached, note that everything is gray).

Within the sheet view, within VG I changed the Generic Models project lines override to black pen 8.

It is visible on screen and in the attached PDF.

Is there a way to globally set the lineweights by object type?

I tried changing the Object settings for the Generic Model (the casework) to black and 16 which should be dramatic.  That does not change the individual views on screen or the PDF print.

[scott_d_davis]

Can you send me a sample of this file?  It can be simple: walls, and one piece of casework "new" and one piece "existing". 

In the mean time, here are some things to be aware of:

Object styles: Globally control how objects appear in a project.

Visibility/Graphics: VV or VG shortcut, controls how an object appears in a sinple view.

Override graphics in View: controls how individual elements appear in a view.

Something is amiss in your file/template.  All New objects are by default Black, while all exisitng are Grey.  For some reason, yours are not.  I need to see the file (or a part of it) to find out why.

Why are you using the Generic Model category for casework?  You should be using the Casework category.