Large (GSF) Projects

[CraigGorsuch]

My office is working in retail, outdoor "living center"s that are all the rage now. The average GSF of these projects are in the millions, with multiple building in the project. Has anyone else done a project of this magnitude? What is your experience? What worked / didn't work?

We've quickly run into the limitations of making each building a separate Revit file. The entire facility is a single permit / package release, which makes common details between buildings impossible.

With a single Revit file, there are concerns of the immense file size.

Anyone have opinions.

[melarch]

Have you tried creating each building in their own files and then linking all of the separate projects into a master site plan. This will enable your working teams to focus on each building, reducing the worksets for each and the collective file size. Also, Revit Architecture 2008 permites scheduling linked elements/components.

Thsi approach has worked well for a number of architectural, structural and MEP clients who have worked on projects with multiple stand-a-lone buildings on a single site. They can then develop the site to show modeled connection elements between buildings.

Mel Persin, AIA
AEC Technology Consultant
Technology to Visualize and Realize Solutions
MasterGraphics, Inc.

[sbrown]

We have done sim. projects and I highly think every building needs to be its own file, linked into a master. Just create some generic annotation families to ref. your typical details. Basically do all the typical detailing in one of the buildings, then use a some generic notes to point the contractor to the sheet with the typical details, then use generic annotations for specific refencing. Basically I just opened each type of section marker and changed its family type to generic so I can add annotations anywhere.

[CraigGorsuch]

Our concern is that in the file for Building A, the wall section is identical as the wall section for Building D and Building G: Can RA'08 call the section view from another file? Can we use one wall section for all three buildings in three different files and have Revit track the sheet placement automatically?

You say that RA'08 can schedule linked elements. Can RA'08 tag or keynote elements in a linked file?

How would you put together the package (physical documents) for this project with 16 buildings but with a single permit therefore a single set of documents? Would you still put each building in a separate file? Which brings us back to the question above: 16 buildings with a common "kit of parts" and identical details, how can Building D reference (and maintain the sheet link to) the details in Building A?

[CraigGorsuch]

sounds OK, but we don't want to take the steps backward to "manually" enter our detail locations as Revit handles it for us. This method allows errors to creep in and undoes one of the efficiencies of Revit.

What about wall types that are similar in all buildings? Then the CAD Manager (yours truly) or less likely the Project Data Leader is responsible for maintaining the families for 16 files instead of one.

[unjust]

you'd want to build a template for the project, possibly using the first building's file. build all of the families you need and then save as to include them all in the subsequent buildings.

revit *can* handle detailing however in this case as you'll be doing a number of (presumably) identical details, that could be a typical one, it's more appropriate to use one or two details that show the typical condition and fleshing them out with detail lines than to do the same thing over and over for every building.

if wall types will all be the same, or one of a handful, use an empty wall body for the non-detailed buildings (i.e. building 5 is a mirror of building 4, and the same as 2 and 3 but smaller) so all that has to be maintained is the wall thickenss and the surface faces. only the detailed version needs to contain all of the materials for a wall section.

(n.b. this will muck about with cost and materials estimating plugins/software)

[unjust]

put each building in a discrete file to design it.

use one building as the fully detailed version.

on the site plan link in all of the buildings.

a thought (not tested) trick revit into callign out all details on the same page: in each building file have a sheet called Axx1~5 where all of your details are located. when you print, only print those sheets from the set you fleshed out with detail lines, but all of the buildings will point to the same detail #s.

[sbrown]

I understand the problem with my suggestion and I would send a support request to autodesk to ask their opinion and raise the issue. Thats why I suggested making a general note first, then minimize the amount of fake referencing you have to do.

[CraigGorsuch]

Creating a dedicated template for the project file(s) is not a bad idea, but the project is already beyond SD and all the buildings are being developed simultaneously.

The downside of using Detail Views (which a model dependent) as opposed to Drafting Views (which are not model dependent): Detail Views can not be copied from one project file to another. When we want to reuse a detail from the previous project, Detail views can't be used, but Drafting Views can.

For Wall Sections, the construction is identical from building to building, though the various heights (T.O.S., Parapet, Storefront Head) vary from building to building. The details for each of these conditions are identical from building to building.

Mucking with cost estimating is not an issue as we're not versed enough to put this information in the file (yet). We're looking at cost estimation as an Additional Service for the client within a year when we have Contract Documents down pat. Then we'll do the calculations ourselves.

[CraigGorsuch]

Our official Autodesk contact basically presented the "Everything in one file" approach and the "Each building as a file and linked together" approach and said that it's really up to us to make the decision. Though he did make the all-in-one approach an "official" recommendation.

[Anonymous]

if its all in one, you must be diligent with worksets to break up the
building into mangeable pieces.

wrote in message news:5678256@discussion.autodesk.com...
Our official Autodesk contact basically presented the "Everything in one
file" approach and the "Each building as a file and linked together"
approach and said that it's really up to us to make the decision. Though he
did make the all-in-one approach an "official" recommendation.

[unjust]

hmmm....

thats true, and a reason to use DWG details for oft used typical bits, or to create an annotation family thereof.

[Scott_Womack]

There is a method of getting detail views into other projects than those it was created in. However, you have to do more work in the Detail view to use this approach. Essentially, cut the detail view, and then completely cover the model in the detail view with detailing components. Then go to the next project, Insert from File, 2D Components, this will bring in the information from that completed detail view. It will create a detail view in the file you bring it into.

[CraigGorsuch]

Detail views can not be imported from project to project. However Drafting Views can. That's what we've been doing so far, and it's worked swimmingly.

[sbrown]

All in on for 15 buildings?? I'd sure like to know who recommended that and if they've ever worked on one single full CD package in Revit. Its just NOT possible unless you have some significant computing power. The future is all one model, but hardware is just too limited right now. Maybe if they are simple buildings, but you would have all kinds of messy angles to deal with unless all the building are perpendicular to each other. It just can't be a real suggestion to do it in one file.

[Anonymous]

I have a large multi-building project starting CDs now, but each building
will be under a separate permit over the next 5 to 7 years. I plan to do 1
building per file, CDs for each building in it's own file. To transfer the
typical details around, after the first building is detailed out we will
Group the drafting and annotation items for each reusable detail and export
them to a resource folder. Then make the same cut in the next building
(each building varies slightly, so it's not quite a re-use) and load the
exported file as a group to overlay on the live cut. It's not quite as fast
as common detail sheets in acad, but once you have the typical details
exported, they can easily be reused on other similar projects as well.

-MJ

wrote in message news:5681433@discussion.autodesk.com...
Detail views can not be imported from project to project. However Drafting
Views can. That's what we've been doing so far, and it's worked swimmingly.

[Scott_Womack]

You cannot import the view as a whole, but you can import the 2D elements from a detail view. That is why I was referring to going a little farther with placing 2D detail over top of the model, so all of that 2D information can be brought into another project.

[CraigGorsuch]

I'd have no issue with this method, but out project is a single permit file, single Contract Document issue, and single construction schedule.