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Family Parameter, Default Elevation

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Message 1 of 34
IMCornish
15388 Views, 33 Replies

Family Parameter, Default Elevation

In relation to a 'face' based family (probably others as well) what function does the 'Default Elevation' serve?  Whilst I obviously understand what the both words mean, there seems to be no relationship between any family created using one of the templates and any arbitary value assigned to the parameter.  I need to understand this when nesting such families. 

Andrew Robertson
Chartered Architect
Robertson Partnership
Truro. UK
33 REPLIES 33
Message 2 of 34
Paul_F_Aubin
in reply to: IMCornish

Hello:

 

This parameter is used ONLY when the family is placed. And more specifically, ONLY when placed in a plan view with the "On Vertical Face" placement option. In that case, it will place the element at this elevation with respect to the current level. So if you have it set to 4'-0" [1200], and place it in a plan view, the element would go on the vertical face (perpendicular to the view) of the wall or other surfice and if you open the elevation and look at it, it will be at 4'-0" [1200] off the level line. Keep in mind that this distance is measured from the placement level to the origin reference plane (by default the Center (Front/Back) one. 

 

If you place this using other placement methods, their is little effect. I have not tried to nest this parameter and link it up through a host family, so I am not sure if that works. 

 

Make sense? 

paul

Paul F. Aubin




Paul F. Aubin Consulting Services, Inc.
Check out my books and training videos
paulaubin.com
Message 3 of 34
IMCornish
in reply to: Paul_F_Aubin

Thank you Paul I think that is as good an explanation as I can expect to get.  I first learned Revit from your Mastering Revit Architecture 2009 so thank you for that also.

Just one point of clarity if you don't mind please.  In regard to inserting a face based family which has a Default Elevation of say "50mm" on any surface will the "50m" only be honoured in a plan view?  In other words placing it on the face of a wall will mean that it is directly on the wall with no gap?

Thanks again.

Andrew Robertson
Chartered Architect
Robertson Partnership
Truro. UK
Message 4 of 34
Paul_F_Aubin
in reply to: IMCornish

Hi Andrew:

 

THanks for the comments. Glad to help. 

 

So to clarify on the elevation parameter a bit, look at the attached image. The elevation parameter ALWAYS measures realtive to the level. So it is the vertical distance from level to insertion point of the family. 

 

I numbered the face based elements in the image1, 2 and 3.

 

Item 1 - this one is placed on a sloped roof surface. Compare the items pointed to with black arrows. The properties palette and dimension in elevation are the same (a little round off on the dimension notwithstanding). 

 

Item 2 - This one is placed on a horizontal surface at the top of the wall. The wall is 14' tall and the elevation of this item shows 14'. However, in both items 1 and 2, the parameter on the Properties is grayed out and read-only. 

 

Item 3 - There are three different families that I labeled 3. They are all hosted to vertical surfaces. The one on the left has no work plane associated. The other two are associated with the wall's vertical surface. In call three cases as you can see in the inset properties palette, the elevation parameter can still be edited. So this is the major difference. If you place it using the "Place on Vertical Face" the Elevation parameter remains an editable property as opposed to a read-only value. 

 

Hope that clarifies. 

paul

Paul F. Aubin




Paul F. Aubin Consulting Services, Inc.
Check out my books and training videos
paulaubin.com
Message 5 of 34
wspeakman
in reply to: IMCornish

A related question:

 

The firm I'm working for would *really* like to be able to have a tag for the default elevation.  I'm searching around my books, and on the net, to see if it's even possible.  

 

Is it?  If so, how?  If not, is there a workaround?

 

Message 6 of 34
L.Maas
in reply to: wspeakman

In the family containing a "Default Elevation" parameter add a shared parameter, lets call it familyelevation. In the formula of "familyelevation" enter "Default Elevation" (without the ").

 

Create a tag with familyelevation as label.

 

If you place the component in a project and add the tag, it will show the value of the "Default Elevation".

 

Please note: The value in the tag will not change when the you move the component around (change elevation), because "Default Elevation will remain the same as it is only a type parameter.

Louis

EESignature

Please mention Revit version, especially when uploading Revit files.

Message 7 of 34
Paul_F_Aubin
in reply to: L.Maas

Enllnt makes an excellent point about this approach not staying "live" as the element moves around. 

 

Instead of tagging the default elevation, you could consider tagging the custom "familyelevation" parameter directly. To do this, make it a "Reporting parameter" and lablel a dimension from the ground to the origin point of the family. The reporting parameter would update. However, please remember that default elevation only works when inserted on a vertical face. So if this family is inserted in some other way, the value of the reporting parameter (and thus the tag) would be somewhat less than useful. 

 

paul

paul

Paul F. Aubin




Paul F. Aubin Consulting Services, Inc.
Check out my books and training videos
paulaubin.com
Message 8 of 34
dsparkes
in reply to: Paul_F_Aubin

Hello,

 

At the expense of some thread revival, and trying to keep related information to as few threads as possible, I have a question regarding the reporting parameter as suggested by Paul.

 

I have a face based family in Electrical Fixtures (which I have attached below) for a Duplex Receptacle. The goal is to be able to drive the elevation of the receptacle from either the instance properties or the electrical utility tag that we use for our MEP drawings. This way everything updates and provides a user friendly experience.

 

I have tried to add dimensions to the host, which I assume is the "face" that the extrusions that make up my receptacle sits inside. However, I'm unable to dimension to any of these lines... Is this a limitation to the type of family being used? (face based?)

 

Your help is appreciated.

Message 9 of 34
L.Maas
in reply to: dsparkes

When you place your receptacle in your model in a plan view, with "Place on vertical View" selected. Your fixture will be placed on the default elevation defined in the family. Or before attaching it, you can set the elevation to a different value. After placing the fixture you can select it and modify the elevation in the instance properties.

Louis

EESignature

Please mention Revit version, especially when uploading Revit files.

Message 10 of 34
dsparkes
in reply to: L.Maas

Yes, I’m aware that I’m able to adjust it before or afterwards, but I want my MEP tags to read the elevation of the vertically placed family, and to be able to adjust that value (height/AFF) in my tag/schedule. Which is why I was hoping someone would be able to help me figure the report parameter as explained by Paul.

Message 11 of 34
L.Maas
in reply to: dsparkes

Ok, clear. This is not really possible.

 

The only thing you could do is create a new "elevation" (e.g. dim_elevation) shared parameter in your family. Set a default value for this parameter. When placing the family you would have to make sure your family is at elevation 0. Then you can set the dim_elevation to the elevation you would like. Create a tag and schedule with new_elevation. Then you can modify your elevation in your schedule or tag.

 

The disadvantage is that the normal elevation parameter is still present and still can be modified. This means that if elevation is set at 100 and your dim_elevation is set at 500 The total elevation of your fixture will be 600. See screenshot.

 

Elevation.png

 

So it is somehow possible but you might end up with some fixtures at the wrong height due to double elevation settings.

 

Worth it?...you decide

 

 

Louis

EESignature

Please mention Revit version, especially when uploading Revit files.

Message 12 of 34
dsparkes
in reply to: L.Maas

Ok, I understand most of that, however how do I link/associate the "Dim_Elevation" to my family model and its height (does the shared parameter use the Reporting Parameter or just Instance)? I've tried to dimension from the host face in the family but it wont allow me, which renders my dim_elevation SP useless. I'm missing something. Would you be able to upload that example that you gave me? I'm assuming it was the original file I uploaded, that way I can discect what you did.

 

For my use case, I do think this would be worth it, as I could just keep the default Elevation parameter set to 0 and my new Dim_Elevation SP to a default 1'-6" or something similar. I would just need to remember to not change the standard "Elevation"

 

**Edit -- Thanks for helping me out 

Message 13 of 34
L.Maas
in reply to: dsparkes

See Attached

 

Louis

EESignature

Please mention Revit version, especially when uploading Revit files.

Message 14 of 34
dsparkes
in reply to: L.Maas

That answers it for me. Thanks for the note explaining the reference line as origin, I believe thats what I was missing.

 

I appreciate your help, Kudos!

Message 15 of 34
dsparkes
in reply to: L.Maas

Yes, I'm aware that I'm able to adjust it before or afterwards, but I want my MEP tags to read the elevation of the vertically placed family, and to be able to adjust that value (height/AFF) in my tag/schedule. Which is why I was hoping someone would be able to help me figure It out.
Message 16 of 34
Paul_F_Aubin
in reply to: dsparkes

Hello:

 

Sorry for the delay in replying. I was at Autodesk University and as you might expect got a little behind on my email and other communications. 

 

So, as has already been noted, the Default Elevation parameter is unfortunatley not accessible in tags. I don't know why. I think that EVERY system parameter should be exposed to tags. But it is what it is. 

 

That being said, I am wondering what face-based is giving you in this instance? You can make this family just a freestanding electircal fixture and get almost the same experience. Further, you will not have to make sure that you choose the correct face insertion option when placing and you can add the shared parameter as Enlit suggested and not have to worry about telling users to ignore the Default Elevation parameter. Unfortunatley, you will still have the Offset parameter there, but that is there no matter what. But with the shared parameter, you can report the height in the tag. 

 

Hope that helps.  

paul

Paul F. Aubin




Paul F. Aubin Consulting Services, Inc.
Check out my books and training videos
paulaubin.com
Message 17 of 34
morrelle
in reply to: Paul_F_Aubin

Hi

just opened a new project and there are no elevation plans alongside some other deault suffs . how do i get them back?Capture prob.PNG

Message 18 of 34
Alfredo_Medina
in reply to: morrelle

Please create a new thread for your question, because it is a different from the topic of this thread.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Autodesk Expert Elite (on Revit) | Profile on Linkedin
Message 19 of 34
francisco_perez2
in reply to: L.Maas

"The disadvantage is that the normal elevation parameter is still present and still can be modified. This means that if elevation is set at 100 and your dim_elevation is set at 500 The total elevation of your fixture will be 600. See screenshot."

 

Hi, is not there a way to fix this yet? I have a face-based-family and some users keep changing the "normal elevation parameter" (instance) that you describe. Is there a way to remove this from the properties or else?

 

Thanks.

Message 20 of 34
j.foster
in reply to: Paul_F_Aubin

When I import the family, and try to place on a wall (vertical face), it always puts it at 0'0" AFF. My default elevation is set to 2'-8" AFF. Any ideas why the default elevation parameter doesn't work for me?

 

I can get it to work if I add another reference plane to represent the "reference level" and set that to the origin. Then I add a dimension from the newly created ref plane to the bottom of the family. Then I assign the "default elevation" parameter to that dimension. But it's a little annoying because now when you try to place the family on a wall in the project, it doesn't show the family until AFTER you place it.. just kind of weird..

 

I feel like no one else is doing it that way though and maybe I'm creating extra steps for myself? But simply plugging in a number for the default elevation parameter does nothing for me....

 

Capture.JPG

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