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Does anyone regret switching to Revit?

32 REPLIES 32
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Message 1 of 33
crockett
1100 Views, 32 Replies

Does anyone regret switching to Revit?

Does anyone who has switched to Revit in the last 12 months, and received the proper training, regret the change (hardware issues aside)?

We are a 10 member firm that is considering making the plunge. Our consultants are hesitant to switch for the time being, but some are at least interested.

What are the drawbacks?

I'm desperate for some real world feed back.

I have read several of the other threads relating to switching, but I feel the need to be more blunt.

Thanks in advance for your responses.
32 REPLIES 32
Message 21 of 33
lucasdub
in reply to: crockett

Aye, this was a really good one! But AFAIK unfortunately pretty common issue.
And Revit is probably a bit too new for a system to be well known and easy to get staff proficient at it. And it would be a frequent employer's requirement, that you know the environment already, and do not require training.
L
p.s.
In fact, revit does draw o big bit of it all for you;]
Message 22 of 33
Anonymous
in reply to: crockett

i have to agree with 'lucasdub' on the performance issue. i think the
original developers were more focused on the 'architecture' interface than
the model engine optimization. i have to give them credit for coming up
with the most simple, solid, and dynamic solution to date. we handle the
performance by only modeling what makes sense to model, not loading 'heavy'
worksets if not needed, putting high model detail in alternate families that
can easily be switched out when needed, etc. ya know, model management;)
until they catch up with 2007. Still MUCH faster than ADT when you factor
in what the program Really does for the project.

maybe R10 i hope

--
Brian Earsley
www.arete3.com
18645 South West Creek Drive
Tinley Park, Illinois 60477
708.342.1250 x.225

New to DWF? Check it out!
http://www.arete3.com/services/communication.html
select "ARCHITECTURE" - "File Formats"

wrote in message news:5460431@discussion.autodesk.com...
Bobby, this could go "endless and hopeless". It is not down to hardware
resources but coding and software development. I run core2Duo 2 Ghz/4gb of
RAM here and Revit is struggling with any larger project! And this IS a
really powerful machine as for today.
On the same computer, the test version of Archicad runs perfectly
(development!!!) AutoCAD 2007 FLIES, as does SketchUP 6 Pro.
How much would you pay for 32 GB these days? or Perhaps 64GB if you wanted
to go dual??
Another example: Sony PS2 runs using only 32RAM of RDRAM system memory with
4MB (!!) of video DRAM. It was released in 2000. Check the smoothness of any
new games being developed for that one.
This is software OPTIMIZED for the hardware, and with Revit's example is
either the lack of proficiency for coding at autodesk labs or just an
ignorance. Whichever is worst.
L
Message 23 of 33
Anonymous
in reply to: crockett

I don't use Revit for renderings, so your opinion is well received.

"Brian" wrote in message
news:5460565@discussion.autodesk.com...
i have to agree with 'lucasdub' on the performance issue. i think the
original developers were more focused on the 'architecture' interface than
the model engine optimization. i have to give them credit for coming up
with the most simple, solid, and dynamic solution to date. we handle the
performance by only modeling what makes sense to model, not loading 'heavy'
worksets if not needed, putting high model detail in alternate families that
can easily be switched out when needed, etc. ya know, model management;)
until they catch up with 2007. Still MUCH faster than ADT when you factor
in what the program Really does for the project.

maybe R10 i hope

--
Brian Earsley
www.arete3.com
18645 South West Creek Drive
Tinley Park, Illinois 60477
708.342.1250 x.225

New to DWF? Check it out!
http://www.arete3.com/services/communication.html
select "ARCHITECTURE" - "File Formats"

wrote in message news:5460431@discussion.autodesk.com...
Bobby, this could go "endless and hopeless". It is not down to hardware
resources but coding and software development. I run core2Duo 2 Ghz/4gb of
RAM here and Revit is struggling with any larger project! And this IS a
really powerful machine as for today.
On the same computer, the test version of Archicad runs perfectly
(development!!!) AutoCAD 2007 FLIES, as does SketchUP 6 Pro.
How much would you pay for 32 GB these days? or Perhaps 64GB if you wanted
to go dual??
Another example: Sony PS2 runs using only 32RAM of RDRAM system memory with
4MB (!!) of video DRAM. It was released in 2000. Check the smoothness of any
new games being developed for that one.
This is software OPTIMIZED for the hardware, and with Revit's example is
either the lack of proficiency for coding at autodesk labs or just an
ignorance. Whichever is worst.
L
Message 24 of 33
lucasdub
in reply to: crockett

Unfortunately it is about general performance. Even 2d zoom'n'pan with larger projects (e.g. a multistorey shopping centre, 10 k sqm) is not smooth enough.
We do not use it for renderings, as the rendering system is... let's call it "aged". I personally prefer sketchup and it's 'sketchy' look, than what Revit can produce for renderings. Waiting for vray plugin and openGL support.

Lucas
Message 25 of 33
Anonymous
in reply to: crockett

We don't have a performance issue and we do large projects. Anybody else
seeing performance issues? I also like Sketch Up and use it often with our
Revit models. I love the presets in V6.

wrote in message news:5460616@discussion.autodesk.com...
Unfortunately it is about general performance. Even 2d zoom'n'pan with
larger projects (e.g. a multistorey shopping centre, 10 k sqm) is not smooth
enough.
We do not use it for renderings, as the rendering system is... let's call it
"aged". I personally prefer sketchup and it's 'sketchy' look, than what
Revit can produce for renderings. Waiting for vray plugin and openGL
support.

Lucas
Message 26 of 33
Steve_Stafford
in reply to: crockett

I'm glad ya'll aren't doctors *-)
Message 27 of 33
tigercad
in reply to: crockett

‘Buggy and incomplete’ … I actually agree with your assessment. Revit tries to provide you with every tool needed to design and document a building but fails to cover them all. Some of the more fundamental functions such as dimensioning a diameter cannot be done without a work around and that’s just silly. SOM recently bough 100 seats of another BIM product from Gehry Technologies just to fill in the gaps.
Message 28 of 33
Paulbar
in reply to: crockett

The only thing to be concerned with is mapping out a proper implementation for Revit in your firm. I work for a reseller, and the firms that fail are the firms that are not willing to spend the money to properly transition over to Revit. Don’t go into it think that today we’re AutoCAD, tomorrow we’re Revit – it takes most firms a MINIMUM of 6 months to become somewhat proficient to the level they left off at with ACAD / ADT. I am not trying to scare you, but rather prepare you. You know how to drive a car today, but if I put you behind the wheel of an eighteen wheeler tomorrow, you would be a wreck on the side of the road in no time. Training, mentoring, pilot projects, set goals and objectives through the process, take it slowly and build upon your knowledge as you go project by project. If you don’t use 3D today, don’t worry about 3D in Revit to begin with; work in 2D and leverage the power of the parametric engine for coordination purposes only – this alone will net your firm a huge productivity gain not to mention much better quality working drawings. Revit is a DESIGN tool – AutoCAD / ADT are DRAFTING tools. Always keep that in the back of your mind. Don’t abandon AutoCAD, go with Revit Series and use the AutoCAD for drafting tasks and Revit for the designing tasks.

First step is selling the principles the concept and make sure you have their buy-in and 100% commitment to move the firm to Revit. If there is any reluctance, address in now up front. It is critical to have the team all aiming for the same goal line. Second step, plan, plan, plan the implementation. We usually recommend picking a group of 3 to 6 people to be the first Revit team. These should be people in your firm who are most excited about the change and welcome a better way – the technology gurus of the firm. Next, define a pilot project that Revit can be applied to (preferable a project type that the firm has done many times before and that the Revit Team is overly familiar with – this keeps the learning dimension to Revit only, not the design). Map out the timelines for the project. Set deadlines for the project’s various phases. Make sure to include time for training and mentoring on Revit through this process. Then the Revit team starts with being formally trained in the Revit Fundamentals (3-day course – OFF-SITE from the office so there are no distractions). Next, go back to the office and start on the pilot project. This needs to include mentoring with an Application Specialist (AS) on-site. At first, the AS will be there the first couple of days to help deploy the software, set up the pilot project with Worksets, get the project up and running, etc. Then at least once a week the AS should be coming by to help the Revit Team through the pilot project hurdles. Each user should keep a notepad beside their workstation to jot down problems as they go so the mentoring sessions can address these items. At some point, the users will require to start creating custom content in Revit or Family Creation. This is when the Revit Team should go off-site again and get the next level of formal training in Revit Advance (2-day course). Upon the completion of the pilot project, there should be a post-review to address any successes and/or deficiencies in the implementation process. Now the next project can be considered and another group can start the program. The first group becomes an internal source of knowledge that the second group can call upon, which inevitably speeds the second group’s progress. Over this period of time, the firm can slow wean off the mentoring as they become more and more self sufficient.

This is only one methodology. Every firm is different. You have to find what works best for your people. I have only included this as a detailed example of what a firm should be thinking about through the transition. For budgeting purposes, you should look at the cost of a new seat of Revit Series and double it. This will make up the funds for the implementation portion. We usually aim for at least 15 to 20 hours of mentoring per user plus the training courses with an optional mentoring block if required (really depends on the team).

I hope this helps and I wish you well in your venture towards Revit. Remember, the only consistent thing in life is change!

P. Bardati
SolidCAD
1-866-698-2831
Message 29 of 33
heterarch
in reply to: crockett

My best advice, having been using Revit now for almost 6 months, is that Revit is amazing if you're a more conservative, corporate firm, working on office buildings, spec buildings and the like.. However, if you're a more design-oriented firm, pushing the envelope and doing a lot of custom work, then it may not be for you. Not to say that you couldn't use it, just that it likely wouldn't lead to an increase in productivity or profits..
Message 30 of 33
taythebay
in reply to: crockett

This I doubt. The more complex the greater the need for extensive detailing and accurate coordination of the CD's. If you are pushing the envelope I imagine that means a more complex geometry and more "off the beaten path" interaction of the building's forms. This is where 3d modeling is invaluable. Just my take on things for when I push the envelope.
Message 31 of 33
Anonymous
in reply to: crockett

"Pushing the envelope" so to speak, is pretty much impossible in Revit. In
the past 8 months I've gone from being one of Australia's most advanced
revit users and trainers to one of revit's biggest critics; though I still
use it, and actually think it IS one of the better CAD systems around. I
think it is a bit over-hyped though...

Why?

I have been project architect in a small firm, trying to design & document a
highly curvilinear building. Revit just can't hack it. The curves aren't
even complex - all just sections of a cylinder, so in theory (and in
Autocad) highly definable.

The problems Revit has are what someone in an earlier post termed 'the
gaps'. Revit doesn't just have gaps, it has gaping wide holes. Ever tried to
tag a roof? No? Maybe you've only done a building with one or two
flat-surface roofs. Try a building with segmented roofs - about 300(!) of
them. You can schedule them BUT YOU CAN'T TAG THEM! This is absolute
madness; it seems someone, somewhere made some Y2K-esque programming
decision - no-one will ever need to tag a roof. So I've got 300 roofs to
annotate in about 45 different sections - the manual drafting in Revit is
like kicking a dead whale down a beach (ie, something you try to avoid) and
it would be quicker in Autocad. Yes, I can transfer across, but THEN I lose
the active-model benefits of Revit! Lose-lose situation, and I find far more
lose-lose in Revit than win-win or even win-lose!

Let's see - can't do twisting shapes (extrude any profile along a multiply
curved path), can't do out-of-plane curves (ie multiple-plane curves -
noncartesian path along a cylinder), can't make sloping cuts to a
topography, can't add slab edges to a sloping floor (that one is really
dumb), can't tag roofs, can't add subcategories to railings (or walls,
elevations, section markers, grids, etc).

Don't get me wrong; Revit is still a fantastic program - for light
industrial, project homes, 'standard' (ie rectilinear) home designs,
offices, etc. Maybe even hospitals or retail, but you might want ADT for
those when they get physically large - again Revit's large-scale capability
is clunky, time-consuming, and occasionally downright dangerous when someone
forgets the rigid requirements of when and where to save files.

When it comes to complex geometry and large projects, ADT and even vanilla
Acad2007 run rings around Revit.

Adrian Esdaile
Architect
Sydney, Australia
Message 32 of 33
RevitIt
in reply to: crockett

I couldnt help but react to your comment

"Ever tried to tag a roof?" Agree that you can't tag a roof, but can you tag it in AutoCAD ???? If so little can't be tagged, do it manually. It's funny how you are not complaining about the way AutoCAD works.

"Try a building with segmented roofs - about 300(!) of
them. " wow, i would be curious to see that roof, i bet i could do it with a lot less objects.

"manual drafting in Revit is
like kicking a dead whale down a beach " Wow, everyone i've train and that works with Revit will tell you that it's a LOT easier to do 2D stuff in Revit then AutoCAD.

"When it comes to complex geometry and large projects, ADT and even vanilla Acad2007 run rings around Revit." It's funny how people that has never done a big project right in Revit complain about it's inability to do big ones. Look over at AUGI and you will see that HUGE projects are done in Revit. it's just a matter of organizing your model.

Can you post a few models you had issue with ? or mail me at daniel.hurtubise@@lemaymichaud dot com
Message 33 of 33
Anonymous
in reply to: crockett

you need to talk to Wesley Benn of Benn Design in Aus. He pushes the
envelope with Revit all the time. A marina design he did is modeled after
the petals of a flower found only on the island where the marina
is.....kicker is, the model was built in Revit 3.0.

"corinoco" wrote in message
news:5500930@discussion.autodesk.com...
"Pushing the envelope" so to speak, is pretty much impossible in Revit. In
the past 8 months I've gone from being one of Australia's most advanced
revit users and trainers to one of revit's biggest critics; though I still
use it, and actually think it IS one of the better CAD systems around. I
think it is a bit over-hyped though...

Why?

I have been project architect in a small firm, trying to design & document a
highly curvilinear building. Revit just can't hack it. The curves aren't
even complex - all just sections of a cylinder, so in theory (and in
Autocad) highly definable.

The problems Revit has are what someone in an earlier post termed 'the
gaps'. Revit doesn't just have gaps, it has gaping wide holes. Ever tried to
tag a roof? No? Maybe you've only done a building with one or two
flat-surface roofs. Try a building with segmented roofs - about 300(!) of
them. You can schedule them BUT YOU CAN'T TAG THEM! This is absolute
madness; it seems someone, somewhere made some Y2K-esque programming
decision - no-one will ever need to tag a roof. So I've got 300 roofs to
annotate in about 45 different sections - the manual drafting in Revit is
like kicking a dead whale down a beach (ie, something you try to avoid) and
it would be quicker in Autocad. Yes, I can transfer across, but THEN I lose
the active-model benefits of Revit! Lose-lose situation, and I find far more
lose-lose in Revit than win-win or even win-lose!

Let's see - can't do twisting shapes (extrude any profile along a multiply
curved path), can't do out-of-plane curves (ie multiple-plane curves -
noncartesian path along a cylinder), can't make sloping cuts to a
topography, can't add slab edges to a sloping floor (that one is really
dumb), can't tag roofs, can't add subcategories to railings (or walls,
elevations, section markers, grids, etc).

Don't get me wrong; Revit is still a fantastic program - for light
industrial, project homes, 'standard' (ie rectilinear) home designs,
offices, etc. Maybe even hospitals or retail, but you might want ADT for
those when they get physically large - again Revit's large-scale capability
is clunky, time-consuming, and occasionally downright dangerous when someone
forgets the rigid requirements of when and where to save files.

When it comes to complex geometry and large projects, ADT and even vanilla
Acad2007 run rings around Revit.

Adrian Esdaile
Architect
Sydney, Australia

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