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Disappearing Nested Labels/Annotation

21 REPLIES 21
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Message 1 of 22
Kannik
4861 Views, 21 Replies

Disappearing Nested Labels/Annotation

Hi all -- we have this issue that has affected us in Revit 2011 and 2012.  For many of our families we have a 3D object, a 2d representation of symbolic lines, and then some editable text/annotation:

 

- The text is a Generic Annotation annotation family, with a single label, set to display the parameter "Text Frame"

 

- This family is then inserted into the family of the specific object being created, with, under label's Type Properties, the "Text Frame" of the label being linked with a "Text" parameter in the object family.

 

This seems to work all fine and dandy, however, we're getting an interesting problem:  after working in the file for a while some percentage of the annotation on these families disappear in a view.  Sometimes it's just a few, sometimes half, sometimes all of them just go away (everything else, including the symbolic lines, are still there).  If you close the file and re-open, they will re-appear.  If you nudge them, they will re-appear.  Other views may still have them, at least for a time... then they too will dissapear. 

 

This happens both on screen and, dangerously, during printing.  You print a whole set, only to discover much of your annotation for objects is gone... (not to mention the cost and waste of trees when you re-print).

 

Any thoughts?  Is this a known problem (search only turned up one thread on this), or is there another way to do what I want (have editable annotation on a family) that avoids this issue and I stubmled onto the improper way of doing it? 

 

Attached is a sample of one of our families for your viewing pleasure.  (Frustratingly, as it does not happen consistently, nor immediately, it makes testing rather difficult... )

 

thanks for any help!

 

Kannik

21 REPLIES 21
Message 2 of 22
mrkron1212
in reply to: Kannik

 

We are having the exact same problem!

 

We use chains of repeating letter or numbers to show our wall ratings and I created a line based model component with generic annotation labels for the letters. It works perfectly when I first insert it, but after a few days of work some of the lines start randomly disappearing. If you mouse over them they appear like an invisible line does, and if you move them they show up again. It is very aggravating and we have the same print issue that can be very dangerous when you are dealing will fire ratings.

 

We can do our rating lines with repeating details, but those are view based and have to be copies onto every sheet we need them. This model element works beautifully, it only has to be drawn once and will show in every plan, including the link file for our consultants, I just can’t get them to stop disappearing. I recreated the whole component from scratch and it worked fine for 3-4 days and then the lines started randomly missing again.

 

Did you discover a solution for this?

 

Kron

Message 3 of 22
Kannik
in reply to: mrkron1212

Unfortunately, no solution yet... though it is heartening to learn we are not the only ones having this problem!   Every person who’s looked at this has yet to find a reason for it, or a solution.  Very weird. 

 

I’m now hoping that it is simply a strange 2012 bug and it is fixed in 2013 (we’ve not yet upgraded due to being in sync with another office).  I’m more concerned that it might have something to do with our display drivers and graphics card, though turning off acceleration doesn’t help it (and, of course, it’s happening in prints, though I don’t know if Revit re-processes the view separately for printing or if it uses the same routines).

 

Frustratingly perplexing!

 

Iffn’ I ever discover a solution, I’ll post it here for sure...

 

Still searching,

 

Kannik

Message 4 of 22
mrkron1212
in reply to: Kannik

Same with us. We have not upgraded to 2013 because our consultants are still on 2012 and Revit is not backwards compatible.

 

I think you may be on to something with the hardware issue. We have not upgraded our machines in a few years and they are really starting to struggle with our bigger projects. We have had instances where the rating lines will not show up on one workstation, but do on another.

 

I will likewise let you know if we find anything.

 

Thanks,

 

Kron

Message 5 of 22
CoreyDaun
in reply to: mrkron1212

I have encountered this in the past (with Revit MEP 2011, I believe), but it was with normal Text. It would disappear as described, but reappear once manipulated. In order to make all of the text visible again, I selected one instance, right-clicked, chose 'Select All Instance', then moved it all 1" in one direction, and then used Undo to move them back. If I recall correctly, moving it 0" (typing it) did not work - it had to be some >0 distance.

 

Anyway, I never found an actual solution to this because my computer was replaced (upgraded in every way!) and I've never seen this again.

Corey D.                                                                                                                  ADSK_Logo_EE_2013.png    AutoCAD 2014 User  Revit 2014 User
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Message 6 of 22
jburgessBallinger
in reply to: Kannik

We are having the same problem.  When we re-load the main family(that has the label nested in in) back into the main project, it seems to print more reliably. 

We also have noticed that the label always appears on the screen, but still doesn't print.  And, strangely enough, some of the labels on the sheet will print, but not all.  It's very inconsistant. 

Has anyone made any progress on this?!?!

Message 7 of 22
mrkron1212
in reply to: Kannik

I think we have it nailed down to a hardware/graphics issue. When we first open the file or reload the component all our wall rating letters are working properly and showing up as normal, but they disappear as we work as if we are using up the available memory. We also had issues with them not showing up in prints. We noticed that they acted differently on different machines and we did a test print with one of our brand new computers. If we print the full 160 sheet architectural set the nested labels do not show up on any sheet, but if we print in smaller sets, say the 12 floor plan sheets, all the nested annotation then shows up and works properly.

 

I’m not exactly sure what the issues is, (RAM memory, graphics memory, graphics acceleration), but they seem to work a lot better on the newer machines and print fine if we do it in smaller sets. We are working a little outside the box with the way we have our wall rating component built, and we are clearly overtaxing some element of the hardware.

Message 8 of 22
Kannik
in reply to: mrkron1212

Curiouser and curiouser…  now we add on-screen vs print discrepancies to the mix!  Wonder what Revit’s doing with its drawing system that has this happen – maybe it is a memory leak of some sort.  Hmm. 

 

Thanks for keeping this thread updated!  We’re toying with the idea of buying a new workstation to test if that makes the difference, and if we can ever upgrade to 2013…

 

Yours,

 

Kannik

Message 9 of 22
JMitch4400
in reply to: Kannik

I guess there is still no answer. And FYI we use 2013 and the problem persist. Hello Autodesk HELP!!!!!!!

Message 10 of 22
Kannik
in reply to: Kannik

FWIW, the problem persisted for us as well as we moved to 2013.  We have gone the route of replacing our video cards (switching manufacturer at the same time just to be sure) and so far (SO FAR!) this seems to have worked. 

 

Fingers crossed.  We tested it on my machine and have just upgraded the cards in all of the rest of the production staff's machines.  If this problem shows up again, I might owe the firm $3800 for the new video cards.  😛

 

good luck,

 

Kannik

Message 11 of 22
Kmal232
in reply to: Kannik

Just picking up an old thread here -- my office is having the same issue. However, we are on 2014 with graphics cards & computers that are only 3 months old (and very fast). The issue is not solved no matter which of our machines we test print from.

 

I find that if we try to print Raster it will come out, but raster prints take longer and make heavier, lower quality PDFs. We can't do half our set through vector and 1/2 raster, its too much to keep track of. 

 

The offending elements for us is a nested Generic Annotation exit symbol which is nested into a wall hosted electrical fixture family. The annotation shows up on screen but does not show up in either the print preview or the actual plot/PDF unless it is switched to raster.

 

Any help with this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Message 12 of 22
kmalawski
in reply to: Kannik

Just to bring this thread back to life -- in 2014 this is still an issue. We have brand new custom (expensive) computers and a project that was begun in Revit 2014. Our nested labels are continuously disappearing for unknown reasons.

 

The same symptoms persist, if its moved or reloaded, it will show up ... at least until you sync or walk away for an hour. Autodesk has clearly been made aware of this problem, and I have submitted an error report regarding a similar situation -- to which I received an answer to a separate and unrelated problem.

 

Is there a solution as of yet or are these comments falling on deaf ears?

Message 13 of 22
JMitch4400
in reply to: Kannik

We have changed our video cards and so far so good. We have not seen the disappearing nested labels at this point.



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BIM Manager/Project Manager
GOULD TURNER GROUP, INC.
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615-292-4786 fax
jmitchell@gouldturner.com
www.gouldturner.com

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Message 14 of 22
Kannik
in reply to: kmalawski

This is the problem that won't die, eh? We changed out the video card on all of our machines and recently upgraded to 2014... I am hoping that will solve the problem, but from the sounds of it that is no guarantee. 😞 I'm staring up a new project with our "problem" families, so I will see if the issue shows up again. I have seen the annotation disappear on our overhead exit families, and that's not nested text but nested linework, so, that's even weirder. I wonder, given how few articles or posts about this issue, if this is something that only happens in rare cases (maybe conflicting shared libraries that only happens when you have certain Autodesk products installed together on the same machine?), or if few firms are using nested annotations this way out there... Either way, the day we can stop printing our sets to PDF to check that all the annotative text is showing up properly before we send it to our plotter will be a glorious day indeed! 😛 peace, Kannik
Message 15 of 22
krunung
in reply to: Kmal232

Nice to see that I'm not the only one with the problem. Disheartening though that the solution has not been found. I have this same issue with a column family that has a label nested to call out the dimensions on each face. Saves an incredible amount of time over pulling dimensions in every instance but this problem makes it extremely unreliable. You'd almost need to create a macro that runs any time you want to print that just reminds you to nudge all the columns so these show up. Hopefully Autodesk steps up to the plate and helps with this as it can be an enormous increase in efficiency for all who utilize it.

 

I've attached my file as well. It's a basic rectangular column that has a label on 2 sides with some Yes/No parameters that help you adjust the position and visibility when loaded into your project. Feel free to play with it and see if anything jumps out at you. We've been running 2014 for the last year (usually doa good job of staying up to date with subscription). Perhaps 2015 will help. Our machines are all pretty new with pretty good graphics cards. For some of the responses above though, that doesn't seem like the issue. 😞 

Message 16 of 22
kmalawski
in reply to: krunung

I recently added an invisible model line to my model, going from the bottom to 8' above the top, and I have been having success with it so far. I checked colleagues' computers and it is showing up on theirs as well. Would you be willing to try this with your model and reload it in Krunung?

 

Good luck! 

 

Heres to hoping this problem actually gets resolved the right way soon.

 

-Kevin

Message 17 of 22
krunung
in reply to: kmalawski

Kevin,

 

What did the invisible line achieve? I guess you lost me on that one. 

 

-Kris

 

Message 18 of 22
Kannik
in reply to: kmalawski

Interesting... our families already have invisible lines in them (so they show up when set above the cut plane) but I've done them as symbolic lines. If model lines do the trick and prevent disappearing, I am so switching the linetype! peace, Kannik
Message 19 of 22
krunung
in reply to: Kannik

What's the reasoning behind having invisible lines show up when the element is above the cut plane? Are you able to attach the labels to the line and keep them visible somehow? It seems that you wouldn't want the element to be visible if it were above the cut plane. 

 

I'm having issues with the label that is nested into the column family appearing or disappearing based on its own accord. I'm not sure if that's the same issue that you're having. 

Message 20 of 22
kmalawski
in reply to: krunung

True Krunung, I can understand not wanting the family to show up if it is above the cut plane. In my case, the family is dead-center on the cut plane. I am having the issue with Fire extinguisher cabinets which I want to show up with a label on plan -- since they are recessed and barely visible. The cabinet geometry shows up on the plan, but the label is continuously disappearing. The previous nudge, undo strategy restores the label, but shouldn't be needed.

 

I added an invisible model line that went further above the cut plane and now the label is showing up -- though I must confess I do not know why. Typically this would be done as a workaround to have an object show up in plan or an RCP that lies out of the view range. However, the fact remains that it is working.

 

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