adt2204 versus revit

[Anonymous]

Hello all, My company is looking at purchasing revit for the move into 3d modeling. Does anyone have a good comparison of features, ease of use and return on investment on these programs. We are currently using ACAD 2004 and Viz. Thanks, Jon

[Anonymous]

Check www.zoogdesign.com/forums "jswiftawaarchitect.com awaarchitect.com >" <"jswift wrote in message news:4071c65a_3@newsprd01... > Hello all, > > My company is looking at purchasing revit for the move into 3d modeling. > Does anyone have a good comparison of features, ease of use and return > on investment on these programs. We are currently using ACAD 2004 and Viz. > > Thanks, > > Jon >

[mrwes]

Not a tough call unless you have any ADT experience. ADT is a lot tougher to learn than Revit, and Revit is more fun to use. We have many ADT client firms who have given up on ADT completely and have switched to Revit. They are loving it. You don't see people going from Revit to ADT!

Revit is a single file database... the whole building is one file, which is intelligently demand loaded depending on how much of the building is visible in the current view. ADT is a multi-file approach, where the building is made up of multiple files (xrefs), assembled together to create a whole.

Because of their radically different technologies, a feature comparison would be useless.

[Anonymous]

<> Not true. -Brian Harder

[Anonymous]

Good point. You got 'im. "Brian Harder" wrote in message news:4085518c$1_2@newsprd01... > <> > Not true. > > -Brian Harder > >

[Anonymous]

Jon, you also need to consider what it is that your company does. Design only, drafting, residential or commercial. Both programs have strengths that fit one need or the other but not all. And contrary to what anyone says learning a new program is NOT "easy". No matter what choices you make there is always a learning curve it is part of technology.

[Anonymous]

Jon, According to Jeff, ADT does not do either design, drafting, residential or commercial. I am not sure which one it doesn't do, but since I have successfully done all of these things in Revit within the last year, I think your choice is obvious. ADT really needs to get up to speed, though. It is essential that a robust BIM program be able to do all of these things. I think your choice should really be between Revit and Archicad. G "Jeff42" wrote in message news:25724508.1082552932399.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > Jon, you also need to consider what it is that your company does. Design only, drafting, residential or commercial. Both programs have strengths that fit one need or the other but not all. And contrary to what anyone says learning a new program is NOT "easy". No matter what choices you make there is always a learning curve it is part of technology.

[Anonymous]

Greg, you really should learn that it is inappropriate, unprofessional and immature to place words in someone else's mouth when you don't even know what you are talking about. Clarify any assumptions first before you speak. Nowhere in my statement that I say ADT or Revit could or could not do any of the things mentioned! I only mentioned that depending upon the core business needs of the organization different programs have different strengths and weaknesses. NO program can be everything to everyone. Revit and ADT are both exceptional programs that prospects should spend appropriate time evaluating for their needs. And for you to suggest a product outside of the Autodesk family is a complete indication of where your loyalty lies. But I guess I should expect this type of a condescending response from a Revit user. My mistake for even looking at your topics of discussion!

[Anonymous]

Jeff, you said "Both programs have strengths that fit one need or the other but not all." It is clear from this statement that you feel that both Revit and ADT fall down in at least one of these areas. I submit that Revit does not, as I have used it successfully in all these areas. It's as if I were to say that I think dogs and cats are bad and then you told someone that I said cats are bad and then I got mad because that is not what I meant. I did not put words in your mouth, I simply took some out. Process of elimination leads to the appropriate conclusion...Revit. Or Archicad. You're right. I have no loyalty to Autodesk. My loyalty is to my bottom line and my peace of mind. Revit is sympathetic to both. I realize my response was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but your argument is not supported well. It is true that Jon should evaluate as many options as possible, but to suggest that Revit does not handle any of the types of work you mentioned is highly misleading. I think everyone here who has used it for more than 6 months would agree. Maybe the same can be said for ADT. I don't know because I never really used it. I found it cumbersome and didn't want to take the time to figure it all out. Conversely, within 1 week with Revit I had a preliminary model completed and views placed on sheets and was able to print out plans, sections, elevations, details and schedules for my boss to see. His decision was easy, as was mine. "Jeff42" wrote in message news:25533702.1082565661053.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > Greg, you really should learn that it is inappropriate, unprofessional and immature to place words in someone else's mouth when you don't even know what you are talking about. Clarify any assumptions first before you speak. Nowhere in my statement that I say ADT or Revit could or could not do any of the things mentioned! I only mentioned that depending upon the core business needs of the organization different programs have different strengths and weaknesses. NO program can be everything to everyone. Revit and ADT are both exceptional programs that prospects should spend appropriate time evaluating for their needs. And for you to suggest a product outside of the Autodesk family is a complete indication of where your loyalty lies. But I guess I should expect this type of a condescending response from a Revit user. My mistake for even looking at your topics of discussion!

[Anonymous]

I'm gonna kick myself for getting involved in this but... I think most sincere ADT users who have used it for more than 6 months would agree that it performs admirably in all those areas; not perfectly, but worthy of more accolades than condemnations. Apparently the same can be said for Revit. I don't know because I never really used it extensively. I found Revit EXTREMELY cumbersome, backwards, and counter to the way I think, and didn't want to take the time to figure it all out. I'm probably a bit prejudiced because I appreciate the AutoCAD engine underneath ADT and place little value on the whole BIM fad. I'd rather draw smart than have a smart drawing. But even with the presumption that CAD shouldn't just be an expensive electonic pencil, I don't think 3D is a fundamental "requirement" for a "smart" drawing. In my opinion smart drawings are more about data sharing / linking than the graphics. Sharing and linking to data is often unrelated to the graphics or whether those graphics are 2D or 3D. Actually, my biggest critisism of ADT is that it tries to rely too much on it's own for all building design data. Thus it shouldn't be surprising that I have the same criticism of Revit. I just believe that single building modeling is fundamentally the wrong direction for design software to go. But I lost that argument a long time ago. All the big players are trying to do the same thing, some more clumsily than others but all basically built on the same premise: we should create virtual replicas of buildings with only one piece of software rather than utilize the best of many softwares to push or manipulate the appropriate data most efficiently. I wish one of the BIG CAD developers would step up to the plate and instead of trying to copy each other, try something really different like pulling data from other sources rather than pushing it out. Cheers. -Brian

[Anonymous]

I could say, "Nuff said," but that wouldn't give me the opportunity to say...I think you will find that your last wish is being worked on by a BIG CAD developer. I'll let you guess which one. "Brian Harder" wrote in message news:4086b0bf$1_3@newsprd01... > I'm gonna kick myself for getting involved in this but... > > I think most sincere ADT users who have used it for more than 6 months would > agree that it performs admirably in all those areas; not perfectly, but > worthy of more accolades than condemnations. Apparently the same can be > said for Revit. I don't know because I never really used it extensively. I > found Revit EXTREMELY cumbersome, backwards, and counter to the way I think, > and didn't want to take the time to figure it all out. > > I'm probably a bit prejudiced because I appreciate the AutoCAD engine > underneath ADT and place little value on the whole BIM fad. I'd rather draw > smart than have a smart drawing. But even with the presumption that CAD > shouldn't just be an expensive electonic pencil, I don't think 3D is a > fundamental "requirement" for a "smart" drawing. In my opinion smart > drawings are more about data sharing / linking than the graphics. Sharing > and linking to data is often unrelated to the graphics or whether those > graphics are 2D or 3D. Actually, my biggest critisism of ADT is that it > tries to rely too much on it's own for all building design data. Thus it > shouldn't be surprising that I have the same criticism of Revit. I just > believe that single building modeling is fundamentally the wrong direction > for design software to go. But I lost that argument a long time ago. > > All the big players are trying to do the same thing, some more clumsily than > others but all basically built on the same premise: we should create virtual > replicas of buildings with only one piece of software rather than utilize > the best of many softwares to push or manipulate the appropriate data most > efficiently. I wish one of the BIG CAD developers would step up to the > plate and instead of trying to copy each other, try something really > different like pulling data from other sources rather than pushing it out. > > Cheers. > > -Brian > >

[Anonymous]

Hmmm, Does it start with a very big A but the product name starts with R? -Brian "Greg Cashen" wrote in message news:4086b76e$1_1@newsprd01... > I could say, "Nuff said," but that wouldn't give me the opportunity to > say...I think you will find that your last wish is being worked on by a BIG > CAD developer. I'll let you guess which one.

[Anonymous]

"You're right. I have no loyalty to Autodesk." That is great, I couldn't have paid for that kind of a comment! 🙂 That about says and sums it all up. Thanks, nuff said here.

[Anonymous]

Why would I have loyalty to a software company? Insofar as I have been privy to non-public discussions about future directions of the software, I have an obligation not to convey those discussions to outside parties. But I do not feel any any such sense of obligation to either recommend only Autodesk software or to only buy thier software. I don't work for Autodesk or a reseller. My only loyalty is to myself, my clients and my company. If there is a better software product out there that allows me to produce better designs, better documentation, or better budgets at a better price for my client so that I can make more money for my company, I will take a look at it. Autodesk or not. Go lurk elsewhere. "Jeff42" wrote in message news:21422312.1082573615809.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > "You're right. I have no loyalty to Autodesk." That is great, I couldn't have paid for that kind of a comment! 🙂 That about says and sums it all up. Thanks, nuff said here.

[Anonymous]

🙂 Oh' don't you worry I will be " lurkin".

[JeffreyMcGrew]

Brian, I'd like to hear one real-world example. Really I do. I'm not being cheeky. I'm working for a reseller now, who deals with both products extensively, and would really like to know who has moved from Revit to ADT and why, for we get customers asking all the time about going the other way... It would be good to know why someone decided to go back.

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Jeff, that is a good and valid question. I am sure there are not many examples of an organization implimenting Revit and then bailing on it and going to ADT or another CAD program. Perhaps a better wording might be organizations that were running AutoCAD/ADT and demo'd or "piloted" a Revit program but chose to stay with AutoCAD/ADT. Not that they dumped Revit for ADT but that their trial of it did not meet their needs, requirements, etc. who knows? If looking at it from that direction I personally know of several of those instances. But, that is just the nature of new programs. Geoffrey Moore describes this exact issue in his book,"Crossing the Chasm". And I must say he was right on. Revit is in that "chasm" right now and is a natural process of software evolution and adoption. Cheers..

[Anonymous]

Look, I don't want to jump in here (OK, strike that - maybe I HAVE been sitting on my hands gritting my teeth and wanting to jump in), but the fact is, there ARE firms who have tried Revit, decided it was not for them, and have gone to ADT. And yes, they are using ADT as ADT, not AutoCAD. In fact, I was told by one CAD Manager of a very large firm when he hired me to come and help them out with some ADT implementation issues that if I even mentioned the word "Revit", I would probably be thrown bodily out the door. Since I don't work at any of those firms, but am their consultant instead, I cannot and will not divulge who they are without their permission. And frankly, I find this whole stupid, lame argument, with all of it's misrepresentations, speculations and obfuscations, not worth the effort to get their permission. :-) Suffice to say, whoever said that "nobody is going from Revit to ADT" (and my cache has dropped that original post) is wrong. Bottom line - use what works for you, your firm and your culture. If you're not sure which one that is, then try them out on a pilot project, get a good demo of both, and/or talk to others whose opinions you respect and whose biases (which we all have) you know and can take into account. -- Matt Dillon Private Citizen Acting As Such "JeffreyMcGrew" wrote in message news:24735495.1082585155689.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > Brian, I'd like to hear one real-world example. Really I do. I'm not being cheeky. I'm working for a reseller now, who deals with both products extensively, and would really like to know who has moved from Revit to ADT and why, for we get customers asking all the time about going the other way... It would be good to know why someone decided to go back. > > Thanks

[Anonymous]

Okay, I'll give you one example. Me. But I'll admit I didn't pay for Revit and that made it easier to give up. Had I paid for it, I might have exerted the extra effort to learn more about it than I did. But for the amount of effort that I did put into Revit, (a couple of weeks) I did not find it to be at all intuitive, easy, or even useful for that matter. There were a few occasions when I found myself saying, hey that's kind of neat, but a whole more occasions when I found myself muttering other things not suitable for a PG rated newsgroup. Making a blanket statement that implies nobody goes from Revit to ADT is not a legitimate statement to make. That was all I wanted to point out. There's enough hysteria and exaggeration when it comes to ADT/Revit discussions. Beyond that I'll let others speak for themselves. But I will say that the deck is stacked in favor of going from ADT to Revit. There are (or were) promotions and incentives to adopt Revit but not the other way around. That influences the direction of flow. Also, ADT pre-existed Revit, so if you going to go FROM something TO something, it most likely is going to be from ADT to Revit. I doubt that many Revit users are first time CAD users, so naturally they went there from something else. Once you spend money to go to something, you're more inclined to stick with it. Good enough? Cheers. -Brian "JeffreyMcGrew" wrote in message news:24735495.1082585155689.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > Brian, I'd like to hear one real-world example. Really I do. I'm not being cheeky. I'm working for a reseller now, who deals with both products extensively, and would really like to know who has moved from Revit to ADT and why, for we get customers asking all the time about going the other way... It would be good to know why someone decided to go back. > > Thanks

[Anonymous]

<> HEY! Watch your language! -Brian "Matt Dillon" wrote in message news:4086f7cf_1@newsprd01... > Look, I don't want to jump in here (OK, strike that - maybe I HAVE been > sitting on my hands gritting my teeth and wanting to jump in), but the fact > is, there ARE firms who have tried Revit, decided it was not for them, and > have gone to ADT. And yes, they are using ADT as ADT, not AutoCAD. In fact, > I was told by one CAD Manager of a very large firm when he hired me to come > and help them out with some ADT implementation issues that if I even > mentioned the word "Revit", I would probably be thrown bodily out the door. > > Since I don't work at any of those firms, but am their consultant instead, I > cannot and will not divulge who they are without their permission. And > frankly, I find this whole stupid, lame argument, with all of it's > misrepresentations, speculations and obfuscations, not worth the effort to > get their permission. :-) > > Suffice to say, whoever said that "nobody is going from Revit to ADT" (and > my cache has dropped that original post) is wrong. > > Bottom line - use what works for you, your firm and your culture. If you're > not sure which one that is, then try them out on a pilot project, get a good > demo of both, and/or talk to others whose opinions you respect and whose > biases (which we all have) you know and can take into account. > > -- > Matt Dillon > Private Citizen Acting As Such > > > "JeffreyMcGrew" wrote in message > news:24735495.1082585155689.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > > Brian, I'd like to hear one real-world example. Really I do. I'm not being > cheeky. I'm working for a reseller now, who deals with both products > extensively, and would really like to know who has moved from Revit to ADT > and why, for we get customers asking all the time about going the other > way... It would be good to know why someone decided to go back. > > > > Thanks > >