2014 view templates - imported categories overrides

[russellvee]

This is a feature I used quite a bit in 2013. I import cad files and tweak the visibility settings for layers I want to show up as my background. For some reason, with 2014 I am now losing the ability to modify these settings once I set a view template. Prior to applying a view template, I can control each layer of every imported cad file and set them to halftone, etc. As soon as I apply a view template, I lose all ability to use layer control on the imported cad.

There is also a weird little white line underneath the checkbox for "Imports in Families" once the view template has been applied. I don't know if that has anything to do with the cad file being hidden somehow.

[rosskirby]

Edit the view template and uncheck the box next to "V/G Overrides Imported Objects".  Then you can control the visibility/graphics of the view manually.  Otherwise, you'll have to go in and edit the view template to control what is/isn't visible and the lineweights of imported CAD.

What's happening is that anything controlled by a view template in a view is essentially "locked" except through editing the view template.  This is because with 2013, any view with a view template applied will automatically update with changes to the template applied to that view.  In previous releases, you had to manually re-apply the template to see the updates take effect.

[russellvee]

Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure I follow. I want to edit the existing view template. My problem is that once I have established a view template, I am no longer able to control visibility of imported CAD objects for that template. This is a problem I am having with the new 2014 release, and worked fine for me with 2013.

Say I have several views that use a linked background from a consultant and they add a new text layer that I don't want. I already have a view template that I have meticulously set up to show/hide all the layers I want on the linked CAD file, and I use this template on a handful of my views. With 2014, I can no longer edit this existing view template to hide any new layers that pop up in that CAD file. So far, my workaround is to apply <none> as my view template, which then allows me to edit the import overrides, then re-create the view template from my view and overwrite the previous template, then re-apply the new template to all the views. It's not terribly complicated, but it worked great before so I don't understand why it changed and can only assume it is some sort of programming error with 2014.

[ericsimon9117]

I am experiencing this issue as well.  My firm really can't even use Revit 2014 if we can't control visibility of imported or linked CAD files with our view template like we could in 2013.  Please fix this.

[ericsimon9117]

I'm sorry, but this is infuriating.  Autodesk keeps breaking things with new releases and never going back to fix them.  Reference label for designating views as OPP, SIM, or TYP:  Broken several years ago and never fixed.  Showing ACT surface pattern as dashed when demolished: Broken in 2010 release and never fixed.  Controlling visibility of imported/linked CAD files with view template: broken in 2014 release and likely to never to be fixed.

These are basic things that people documenting projects have to do every day on every project, and they are relatively simple functions.  But has anything been done?  No.  And this is just the stuff that broke and wasn't fixed, not the stuff that never worked correctly in the first place.

I'm really getting sick of it.  I'm the BIM manager of my firm, and I'm seriously thinking about switching platforms.  Maybe Microstation has their act together...

[russellvee]

I finally managed to get it working somewhat like rosskirby explained above, but I still don't understand why they changed it from 2013. I make a separate view where I link all of my CAD backgrounds and adjust the layer visibility and lineweights to my liking (I turn off any text or other junk from the architect and make everything halftone) then when I have everything how I like it I "create view template from current view" and name it "ARCH CAD" and uncheck everything except "V/G overrides import". Then on all my standard MEP view templates (i.e. plumbing)  I UNCHECK that same "V/G overrides import" box. So if the architect sends me a new CAD background with a new layer of junk, I recreate my ARCH CAD template, then go to each of my views (i.e. plumbing) and apply ARCH CAD first, which fixes the background, then I reapply the desired template for the view (i.e. plumbing).

Its a pretty convoluted way to do things but it seems to work. Maybe there is an easier way but I haven't found it. I guess they aren't really thinking about MEP engineers using 2D cad backgrounds from architects.

[rosskirby]

OK, so I think I may have partially misunderstood or misinterpreted your original post/problem.  Let me see if I can summarize, and hopefully we can come up with an easier solution.

You receive a CAD file from the architect, which you intend to use as a background for your MEP drawings.  You want to control the V/G of the layers in this CAD file with a view template.  After you have the view template set up to control the linked CAD the way you want it, you apply that template to the view.  When you go to edit that template, so that you can change how that template affects the CAD file, the CAD file is not listed (per your image) in the list on the Imported Categories tab of the V/G override dialog box.

Is that about right?  If so, you may need to do a repair installation, because the CAD link should still be showing up in the V/G override box on the Imported Categories tab.  This isn't a behavior that changed from 2013 to 2014, because I just tested it, and even after I apply the view template to the view, I can go back and edit the view template, and the CAD link shows up in the V/G override box.

If my summary is incorrect, or if I've left out some step, please let me know, and I'll take another stab at it.  You shouldn't need to create a new view template every time you get an updated CAD file from the architect.  You should be able to just do Reload From on the link, choose the new CAD file, and the changes affected by the view template should remain.

[rosskirby]

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@ericsimon9117 wrote:

Reference label for designating views as OPP, SIM, or TYP:  Broken several years ago and never fixed.

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For this, you'll have to create a separate view type for each tag.  Just be careful, because you can't reference the same view as both TYP and either OPP or SIM, since a view can't simultaneously be sorted in the project browser in two separate categories.

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@ericsimon9117 wrote:

Showing ACT surface pattern as dashed when demolished: Broken in 2010 release and never fixed.

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I posted a fix for this on the wiki-help.  Just go download the associated file (which has 2x2 and 2x4 demo ceilings that you can copy/paste into your project to bring in the demo hatch pattern.  Here's a link.

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@ericsimon9117 wrote:

Controlling visibility of imported/linked CAD files with view template: broken in 2014 release and likely to never to be fixed.

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See my response to the OP above.

I can appreciate your frustration, because I've shared them on all these issues at one point or another.  But that's part of what this forum is for: finding solutions.  

Please feel free to come back any time and let us know what kind of road block you're running into.  Like I tell all the users that I work with, any time you're doing something repetetive, dull, or tedious, or if you just can't seem to do it at all, please let me know, because there's probably an easier way.

[ericsimon9117]

I tried a repair install, and it did not fix the issue.

"For this, you'll have to create a separate view type for each tag.  Just be careful, because you can't reference the same view as both TYP and either OPP or SIM, since a view can't simultaneously be sorted in the project browser in two separate categories"

I am aware of the ability to create several view types.  However, the whole point of these callouts is that you can reference the same base detail but call out that a particular condition is either similar or opposite to the referring detail.  If you can't have both SIM and OPP callouts referring to the same view, then the feature is in fact broken, as you cannot use it to do what it is supposed to do.

"I posted a fix for this on the wiki-help.  Just go download the associated file (which has 2x2 and 2x4 demo ceilings that you can copy/paste into your project to bring in the demo hatch pattern."

Despite this being a work-around as opposed to a feature that works correctly, this only works if you have a project with only two phases: "Existing & New Construction", because you never need to see this ceiling as anything but demolished (unless you have existing conditions drawings for some reason, of course) The pattern appears dashed regardless of the view phase or phase filter.  If you have an RCP of the ACT ceiling for a phase prior to the phase in which the ceiling is demolished, it still shows the dashed lines, indicating demolition before it is supposed to occur. This solution, therefore, does not work in many cases.

I appreciate your attempting to help with these in any case, but the features are without a doubt broken.

[russellvee]

Yes, I think that pretty much describes what is going on. When you say "apply view template" do you mean from the view templates dropdown or set it permanently in the (properties)/(identity data) box? I can only do layer control on cad backgrounds when "none" is selected as the view template in the (properties)/(identity data) box, which is different than it was in 2013. That doesn't mean that I can't apply a view template from the ribbon dropdown and then go in and do layer control on CAD files as long as "none" is selected in the properties box.

The root of the problem is this: I have set up all of my cad backgrounds to be red and halftone so I can easily see my MEP stuff on top. I just received an update from the architect and now there is a new layer called "A-ANNO-TAG-DOOR" and a hundreds of little grey door tag markers all over my lighting, power, plumbing and HVAC drawings. I want to know the quickest possible way to get that layer out of my 20+ views, because right now the way I'm doing it is fairly time consuming.

Thanks for your help.

[ericsimon9117]

After some testing, I have found that this error occurs when you check "Current View Only" on import.  If it is imported or linked without the box checked, it appears to behave as normal.

So it's half-broken.

I almost always use "Current view only" because I'd rather import it to the views I want to see it in rather than hide it in every other view.

[rosskirby]

I can understand where you're coming from with the OPP and SIM, because in CAD, you could have one (dumb) tag that said either one.  Since you can't do that in Revit, we made the decision to just go with SIM, since OPP is more or less a subset of SIM.  That is, if something is opposite, then it is similar to the original, and thus SIM is an accetable tag.  We don't use TYP, because we have a general note that addresses when a detail can or cannot be considered typical.  So, in the end, we have live details and SIM details.  We don't have any referenced details or callouts that are both live and SIM, so we have no conflict.  We've been using this method for the last 5 years, with no issues from GCs or building departments, so adapting to the way the software works, rather than trying to make it do something just because we had always done it that way, worked for us, at least in this case.  I know that's not always possible.

As for the demo ceilings, you're right, 99.9% of our projects are Existing and New Construction, or at least have non-overlapping New Construction phases, so having a single ceiling that represents new in one view, and then demo'd in another view, is somewhat difficult.  You could, however, just use a view filter to make this work.  Set the filter to override the ceiling pattern for that ceiling system family with the demo pattern, and you're good to go.  And since the ceiling is only going to show up as demo'd in one view (maybe more, if you're using dependent views), then it's a 5 minute fix, tops.

It's good that you bring these issues up, because there are probably tons of people out there going through the same thing, and have just given up on it because they couldn't get it to work.  Granted, not every solution is as automatic as we would like, but compared to the alternatives, I'd venture to guess that they will work for most people without becoming a hindrance.

[rosskirby]

OK, good.  So the reason you can't make changes to the V/G overrides in a view after a view template has been applied is part of the changes made in 2013, and which I referred to in my first post (i.e. view templates auto update views now, so you can't change the V/G of a view with a view template without changing the view template).

When I say "apply a view template", I mean setting the view template parameter for a particular view to a particular view template.

For your problem, I would suggest setting the view template for the view, including control of the Imported Categories, and then editing that template to control the V/G overrides for the linked CAD file (you're linking them, not importing them, right?).  We (the architect) use CAD backgrounds (MEP, existing conditions, etc.) all the time, and this is the method we use.  We don't have to set up separate views or view templates (other than the one already applied to the view) to control CAD files, and when we get a new file, we just do Reload (if the original CAD file is being overwritten) or Reload From (if we're using an all new CAD file), update the view template, and keep on chugging.

[ericsimon9117]

"For your problem, I would suggest setting the view template for the view, including control of the Imported Categories, and then editing that template to control the V/G overrides for the linked CAD file (you're linking them, not importing them, right?). "

This is the problem.  When imported to "Current view only", you cannot control the linked CAD file with V/G overrides in the view template. The layers and overrides for the linked CAD file do not appear in the imported categories tab of the view template applied to the view.

"Set the filter to override the ceiling pattern for that ceiling system family with the demo pattern, and you're good to go.  And since the ceiling is only going to show up as demo'd in one view (maybe more, if you're using dependent views), then it's a 5 minute fix, tops."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you cannot override a surface pattern with a model pattern, only with drafting patterns.

[russellvee]

"For your problem, I would suggest setting the view template for the view, including control of the Imported Categories, and then editing that template to control the V/G overrides for the linked CAD file"

This is exactly my original problem though. I CAN'T edit the V/G settings in an existing template in 2014 like I could in 2013. However, I checked what ericsimon said above and this is true for me too. All of my linked cad files are linked in "this view only" and then I copy/paste aligned to other levels as needed. I don't want 1st floor cad showing up on 3rd floor views or in 3D views and whatnot. If the cad file is linked to all views, V/G overrides seem to work how they did in 2013.

Say I have a view template called PLUMBING set up how I like it. I use this template on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd floor plumbing views. Each of these views has a different cad files linked in by "this view only". In 2013, if I got new backgrounds from the architect I used to be able to adjust my PLUMBING template to zap any unwanted layers out of all three cad files in one fell swoop. In 2014, I can't do that (unless I link them all in all views and in 3-dimensional space rather than by "this view only")

[CoreyDaun]

Perhaps instead of linking in the CAD file in each and every View (via "Current View Only"), you can link the CAD file normally but place it on a dedicated Workset that's default off. That way, you'll only see it in the View in which you have intentionally turned that Workset on.

Alternatively, you can create a dedicated Design Option, and add the CAD import to the secondary option. Just like the above, it will then only appear when you specifically want it to. The bonus to this method is that the CAD import will, in general, not be selectable due to being apart of a Design Option.

[rosskirby]

OK, I've finally been able to reproduce your problem, and it appears to happen whenever you link or import a CAD file into the current view only.  The easiest solution is to link the CAD file normally, with the "Current view only" box unchecked.  Then the overrides respond normally to template controls.

I think what's happening is that there's a sort of internal conflict between a view template and linked/imported CAD files that are only in a single view.  It seems like Revit can't decide whether that object is a modeled element, or a detail element, or something in between, hence the reason it can't seem to keep track of the V/G overrides when you apply a view template.  This might be something you want to file a service/feature request with Autodesk about, because there's only one real "fix":  When you want to control the V/G overrides of a linked CAD file with a view template, the CAD file has to be linked in with the "Current view only" box unchecked.

Sorry I couldn't find a better solution.

[russellvee]

On a related note, maybe I'm not making good use of the Delete Layers command? Is there a reason why when I use Query/Delete the layer always comes back on a reload? I thought Delete Layers was the same thing except in list form, but it seems to make the deletion permanent. These cad files have dozens of layers with ubiquitous names, so its risky for me to go through the list and kill layers because its a huge pain if you accidenally delete the wrong one.

[Hugh_Compton]

I link the CAD files to specific views.  I halftone them by creating a new Filter then using the SELECT radio button option (see attached) to select the linked CAD file.  I then tick halftone in the Filter itself.  Works fine for me.......

I'm a Revit Newbie so maybe I'm missing the point???...........

[Anonymous]

http://revitoped.blogspot.com/2013/07/visibility-graphics-dialog-and-using.html

This may help to what you are doing at this site.