Recap Coordinate system shift/scale issue

[Jay.Meszar]

Hello,

I am experiencing issues with bringing in an LAS file to Recap and saving the RCP.  The import works fine, saving works fine, but when it is imported into anything else (Civil 3D or Infraworks), the coordinate system shifts.  I know this because I brought the LAS file into Civil 3D with little effort and created a surface.  Everything looks great.  I then (as a check) imported a pts file that was exported from Recap and the two are WAY off.  So, I brought the rcp file into Infraworks and also brought the surface into Infraworks.  The surface is good (checked rough LAT/LONG against google earth) but the point cloud is roughly in the right location but seems to be scaled 3 to 4 times the surface.  You can see in the attached image that one point cloud is almost the same size as the surface that was created from 4 point clouds....any help you can provide would be great.

[tarheels09]

Great news, thanks for your help.

[John_DeLeeuw]

I get this error when updating through the Autodesk Application Manager:

Now what?

Regards,

J.

[richiee]

John, try downloading the hotfix directly: http://download.autodesk.com/SWDLDDLM/Updates/ReCap/1.3.2.5/x64/AutodeskReCap_1.3.2.500_to_1.3.4.5_S...

The instructions for installing the hotfix are here:

http://download.autodesk.com/SWDLDDLM/Updates/ReCap/Autodesk_ReCap_2015_Hotfix1.html

[John_DeLeeuw]

Thanks Richiee, that worked r8 away!

Seems the Autodesk Application Manager has some problems to deal with...

Best,

J.

[Anonymous]

Hello, I have been haing the same shift/scale problem bringing a point cloud from Cyclone into ReCap then Civil3d. My coordinates are off about 5' +/- . 

I had my I.T. department try installing this hotfix and they said something was wrong it and it didn't like this version.  Is there another one we can try?  Please let me know.  Thank you!

[richiee]

Lisa, since this post we released another update (1.3.5.1). Would I be correct to assume that updating via the Autodesk Applications Manager is a no-go? You can find direct links to the newest service pack here: http://recapsupport.typepad.com/blog/2014/07/autodesk-recap-2015-hotfix-3-june-is-now-available.html

[ERDAG13]

I have a same problem with Lisa,my project is CA coordinate system and when I attached RCS file to Civil3d.It is shifted +-5 feet.I applied all the hot fixes upto 1.3.5.2.Issue still not resolved! 

[cjruch]

ERDAG,

I am also having these problems. The work around (and it is neither perfect, nor ideal but "close enough" in a lot of cases is this:

Export your cloud in PTS fromat from cyclone/Scene/whatever, with the units set to METERS

Bring this cloud into recap, UNITS SET TO METERS.

attach this recap cloud in your Civil3d drawing, with the Drawing utilities\drawing settings\drawing units set to METERS.

select the point cloud in model space.

in the properties bar, with the cloud selected enter: 3.28083333 as a SCALE factor.

-this will scale the meters cloud by the appropriate unit.

go back to  drawing utilities\drawing settings\drawing units, set the units back to US Survey feet.

This should work as a "close enough for government work" solution. The elevations have been perfectly right on for me, but the N and E do show a nominal difference averaging .05-.10' for any individual point cloud point. This is due to how far you can carry out the scale multiplier within civil3d, and the fact that state plane coordinates are in the hundreds of thousands, and millions.

Just be advised that it is not a perfect fix.

I think there is something wrong with the conversion factor that Civil3d is using. (mostly because there is seemingly no differential between us survey feet and international feet  at state plane transforms, when clearly there should be.) 

CJ

[wyans]

I am experiencing a similar issue to this. My recap file is on state plane (and the units are set to survey feet). It all shows correct in Recap.

However, when I insert the drawing into Civil 3D (Drawing Settings in US Survey Feet and the correct Zone & coordinate system selected) it shifts the recap data. I'm assuming that it is a shift due to some conversion that is survey feet vs international feet. If I do everything in metric, I don't have this issue, but considering that all of our jobs are in survey feet it is causing quite a problem.

Has anyone found a resolution for this problem?!

[esorensen]

When I import the data back in to Civil 3D I import it into a State Plane Coordinate System, but with units set to meters, it works great.

Erin Sorensen
GIS TECHNICIAN
Idaho Power|GIS/CADD Production
208-388-5376









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[wyans]

See the biggest problem is that we want to overlay it with survey points from the field, which are all in US survey feet. Considering our entire job is in US Survey Feet and we use Civil 3D to overlay all of these different aspects of the job it really screws with the whole system.

[tcinquini]

In C3D 2016, a fix that seemed to work is to scale the point cloud on insertion.  One International foot equals 0.999998 U.S. Survey feet. (OR One U.S. Survey foot equals 1.000002 International feet.).

Our project is set to California Coordinates, Zone 2. US survey feet.  When xref'ing the cloud, the insertion point should remain at 0,0 but change the scale from 1 (default) to 0.999998.  This brought the cloud right on top of our terrestrial survey work.

It is hard to belive that the conversion to US Survey feet hasn't been incorprated into Recap yet...

[tarheels09]

I was told a year ago by Autodesk that the problem with us feet and international feet had been fixed

in Recap, unbeliveable this is still going on.

[lazicr]

HOLY (EXPLETIVE PROFANITY) !! I have just read that in Civil 3D 2016 you STILL NEED A WORKAROUND!?!?!? 

Ahem...(10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5...)

In Civil 3D 2015 SP3 I now have XREF perform the Units Scale automatically, without my needing to enter it in the Parameters dialog, where it states Scale Factor 1.0

This is also confusing to the user because if they KNOW the point clouds are in meters (Cyclone will collect in meters only) then they will THINK they need to apply a scale factor, which they DON'T because the XREF senses the difference in UNITS and applies the "Units factor"

HOWEVER, this factor is applied for Meters to International Feet without a chance given to the USER to APPLY A CORRECT Units factor!

BUT THEN: We have the Point Cloud "Scale" property where we can apply whatever factor we want BUT we have to ASSUME that THIS TIME SPECIALLY, Autodesk understod correctly that scale factor should be from the 0,0,0 point. 

And, with a little luck, a prayer or what have you, we will arrive at a correct model scale.

Remember this number: 0.99999803

YOU ARE GOING TO NEED IT!

(AND THE  PART OF THE AUDIENCE WHO WORK IN SI UNITS, BURST IN A SYMPATHETIC, **** DROPPING LAUGHTER HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!)

[bschiessPV8KR]

Only took me all day to find you solution... Thanks. Let's hope they figure this out soon.

[grayd]

I have also been experiencing this same problem in Civil3D 2016.  No matter what I do, I can't get the system to automatically scale metric data to US Survey Feet upon import.  I created a test drawing in metric units with a line of equal to 304,800.609601 meters, which is equal to 1,000,000.0000 US Feet.  I then created a new drawing with units in feet, Imperial to Metric conversion set to US Survey Feet, and checked the box for scaling objects inserted from other drawings.  When I insert the metric drawing, the line comes in at 1,000,002.0000 long, which is the International Feet equivalent of my original line, not the US Survey Feet length.  (It also comes in the same length if I have the conversion set to International Feet.)

I came to realize this was happening when I imported a point cloud from Recap into an existing drawing in US Survey Feet units.  The vendor who generated the scan file told me it lined up with my data in his software, but it was obviously scaling the point cloud incorrectly in C3D. 

As long as I work with all data in US Survey Feet, there's no problem because there is no conversion.  But now, I'm getting files from other folks that need to be converted to US Survey Feet.  The scanning folks have told me their data is natively in metric units.  The only way I can figure out how to make it work is to set my drawing in units of feet, and scale the files at .999998 upon import, which is the conversion factor for scaling International Feet to US Survey feet.  I can't believe Autocad doesn't do this correctly.  The Autocad native Feet units setting should be separated into US Survey Feet and International Feet just like any other units.

[sfoltzNTRBN]

Thank you to everyone who created this thread.  I scanned the lodge of a ski resort recent with an Faro Focus x330.  I registered scans in Faro Scene.  I am working with a surveyor who is providing me survey data for 15 different checker targets.  Data is provided in US Survey Feet.  I exported scans containing checker targets as .pts files from Scene in meters.  I indexed scans in recap with units set to meters and saved.  I spent many hours trying to figure out how to align an .rcp with survey data in US Survey feet.  My notes are below:

Here is my detailed process for importing Survey Data in US Survey Feet and Recap point clouds into Civil 3d 2017:

1. Export from Scene in Meters
2. Import into recap as meters, save as meters (Recap wants to default to meters)
3. In Civil 3d 2017, open a .dwg in Imperial Units.
4. Below prospector, select “settings” right click on “Drawing1” Select “Edit Drawing Settings” Change “Imperial to Metric Conversion” to US Survey Feet
5. Insert – Points from File, select .csv file in PENZD format or whichever format you need.
6. Survey data should come in. Zoom-extents to take a look.
7. Now it’s time to bring in a point cloud. Change “edit drawings settings” – Drawings Units – to Meters AND change back to “International Foot” -- This is very important!!!
8. Attach .rcp file from Recap
9. Uncheck insertion point
10. Uncheck scale – specify on screen. Enter a scale value of 0.99999803
11. Once point cloud appears in Civil 3d, change units back to Feet and conversion back to US Survey Feet.
12. Points and point cloud should now align
13. If you need to bring in other Recap point cloud files in the future, you must change units back to Meters and Imperial Foot, like step 6. After bringing in files, again change units back to Feet. 

Steve

[sfoltzNTRBN]

 Also, a college is going to model some parts of the project in Revit.  I will be delivering the final in Civil 3d with the Revit components, a 1' contour terrain, and survey data all combined.  Do I need to ask my college to scale the point cloud before she begins modeling in Revit?  Or will I need to scale her 3d model in Civil 3d?

Any help or advice would be appreciated, even quick messages or thoughts could get me pointed in the right direction.

Steve

[wyans]

To work in Revit, I would suggest using your scaled point cloud as a .dwg, rather than pulling the point cloud in directly from Recap. This way you can make sure that everything is in the right space before she starts. If everyone works directly from the .dwg, you know that everyone is working in the same place.

Make sure that your shared/project coordinate systems are set up right before she starts though, so that you can export the model and pull it back in without any issues.

[wyans]

Your process sounds about right to me, we do our point cloud registration in Trimble Realworks so we have the option to export our point clouds in US Survey Feet and I change my Recap setting to US Survey feet when I bring it in which gets rid of a few of the extra steps. Changing your AutoCAD settings BEFORE bringing in the point cloud is very important, however, even with all of these precautions/setup steps I have always had to scale the point cloud by the .999 ... factor, I really wish that AutoCAD would address this issue.