Layers turned "Off" plot unless they are frozen

[TPaul_T]

Hello, I am in my companies IT group and work with the AutoCAD techs.

First, here is a little background:

I have a user which we just installed Autocad Civil 3D 2014 on his computer that is running on a Windows 7 64-bit OS.  However, he has had the same problem with Civil 3D 2011, 2012, and 2013 ever since we took him to 2011 in September 2011.  So, it is not something new.  It may have been around before then but my companies common practice back then was to freeze layers with a script file before plotting.  While attending a class back in 2010 or 2011, he and his group were told to “do not use FREEZE on layers in Civil 3D” since things frozen did not get updated like they would if they were just turned off.  So, they have been using the “ON/OFF” commands on all Civil 3D files since then.

Here is the problem:

A drawing, typical of this and other jobs he does, has a title block which is an xref in paper space and the site plan xref in model space.  He can turn "OFF" certain layers from the site plan as viewed from paper space to remove clutter and then go to make a plot.  After getting it set up to print and going to the preview the layers he has turned off appear in the preview and if he goes ahead and makes the plot or PDF those layers that were turned off will plot out.

The work-a-round they have been using ever since has been to go back into the file(s) and “FREEZE” the layers that were turned off, make the plots and then go back and “THAW” the layers before ending the drawing.

Things we have tried:

Set Visretain=1

Used the “Publish” command.

Set Layerevalctl=0 or 1

Is there a better way?  Is there a way to use ON/OFF instead and have the layers NOT plot out?  OR, is this something that AutoCAD will not do regardless?  Has it always been that way and we have been unaware of it through the past four releases?

Any suggestion is appreciated! Thanks!

[dgorsman]

Layers can be set as "non-plotting" as well as on/off.  I'm not a heavy Civil3D user so I can't tell you about freeze vs. on/off, although from the AutoCAD side the former *is* preferred for performance reasons.

[pendean]

Set those layers to NOPLOT and see if that helps: otherwise, there is no substitute to FREEZE and OFF is not always a desired option.

You all need to be experimenting together and with the AutoCAD techs: this is not an IT issue.

[TPaul_T]

You are correct that it is not an IT issue but since the IT group is the one that handles the licensing issues and installs the software we are the ones the techs turn to for advice.

For the past two years, all that has been suggested are work-a-rounds for this issue.  The “No Plot” works but so does the Freeze and Thaw they are currently using. Why replace a work-a-round with another work-a-round?  I wonder, is there no fix?  Does Autodesk not adhere to WYSIWYG?  Why does the plot preview show the lines that have been turned off?  Is the plot preview intended to be the WYSIWYG?  Looks like that is what they intended.

To me it just seems logical that if you want something to not plot, you turn it off.  I guess Autodesk has a different operational idea.

Anyway, thanks for all the input!

[pendean]

Ask in the Civil3D forum for what other Civil3D users do: or bring it CAD tutors to teach based on your user's needs.  We don't use that variant by in our office but do other versions of AutoCAD: we use Freeze/Thaw and never use On/Off for example.

There is nothing to fix: your users need to understand the raminifactons of each option as they have different functions. Naming conventions mean nothing, don't get distracted by that (you're IT, you're not supposed to fully comprehend every program's usage nuances, that belongs to the team software lead that understands how the program works and who's had professional training and experience using the program).

[dockitec]

If you are looking to not plot layers as seen through a viewport, I have always just frozen them through the viewport (i.e. view port in model space while looking at it from paper space) some items you can just click on while using the layer freeze command, while others such as C3d objects, you will need to use the layers command pullout and turn the layer off there, all the way on the right hand side under "VP Freeze" column heading. If you dont keep your layers flyout wide, you made need to scroll a bit to the right. 

 This will turn off the layers in the viewport for plotting purposes, but will leave the layers on in model space. 

Personally, I have never heard the "dont freeze, or it will not update" advice. Our firm does all the work via x-refs, which are then imported into the model space of the sheets as required, with the title block x-ref on the layout tab (paper space) 

[lamontg2]

I am a CIVIL 3D user and a long time user of other AutoCAD base products.  As long as I can remember, I have been involved with in-house trouble shooting for various AutoCAD topics.  One huge challenge to unique on-line topics such as yours the reader has to attempt to accurately recreate the problem at hand in order to resolve the fix because the file in question is not available.

The following questions will help me work toward a resolution:

Are these site plan layers being turned OFF AutoCAD layers or Civil 3D layers? (Civil 3D layers: layers with 3D Civil elements on them). Turning off Civil 3D layer from the viewport via ON/OFF or LAYOFF can sometime be tricky.  Sometime elements in Xref files are not stored on the layer they appear on. To gain the actually layer name of an Xref element use the following command; XLIST. Type this command at the command prompt and select the element in the viewport. (FYI: the layer displayed by this command is a compound of the Xref File/Layer Name. It may appear very long or even truncated). Once the layer is known, go to the Layer Manager by typing “LA”. Expand the Xref layer tree on the upper left by clicking on the + next to XREF. Once open it will show all he Xref files within that drawing. Select and highlight the Xref in question to filter and display only its layers. Turn OFF only the desired layers displayed by the XLIST command. (This is a longer approach, but far more accurate when turning off Xref Civil 3D layers).

This may sound ridiculous, but is the user conforming that each layer turned off are actually removed from the screen? Can he follow up with each

layer OFF with a REGENALL to verify the current drawing state? (One can never be too careful when troubleshooting)

A little information about the plot preview command. The plot preview command is quite typically a plot broadcast of things to come. It uses a what you see is what you get approach. It is rare that it would show layers not displayed in the in the current drawing. And it is extremely rare that it would show layers that were meticulously turned off in the preview display.