Area :: Header
Now available for Desktop Subscription customers!
Smoke 2015 Extension 1 brings the LUT Editor and Matchbox to the timeline.
Discussion Groups

Particles - Dynamics

Reply
Active Contributor
benc_1
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-29-2009

HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

103 Views, 26 Replies
03-19-2009 01:02 PM
Hi -this is a new thread as I couldnt post a reply to my prior thread " RE : error "HAIR ATMOSPHERIC" IS NOT SUPPORTED (while rendering message)".Author who posted was MK 3D on that thread - My hair and fur settings are the same as in the BMP screen shots contained in that thread which may be useful again.

Ok I a new problem now.

Im doing dyamics tests and want to render out a 200 frame sequence which is just the head moving right to left and a geosphere flowing around the maim of hair just to see how the maim animates and reactes/collisions with a wind and motion etc... as you do

To cut a long story short, it just keeps crashing out after a few frames, 10-20 frames if im lucky, when rendering from a stat file. This is using Mr Prim hair render , with lights as before ,( see prior Screen shots) but also when i set it to buffer mode and composite method - normal , to see if it makes a difference the same happens.

This is just a standard crash error, "3ds max has an error and will now shut down" ok not quite like that but very similar; its not specific why. Just your standard error.

Right now, i just need to render something stable, i dont care what it looks like anymore, i need to know what i should be rendering in, like maybe i should use scanline and composite and render hair seperately because its just not stable enough for me to do even test renders at the moment for animation/dynamics wise.

You mentioned before about rendering with matte objects, can you elaborate on this?I can compositte in combustion I know about alpha channels , RPF and targas but my knowledge on what to render to in max for hair, put it together ,and how I exactly make a object matte is minimal-none..

One other thing everytime i do a dynamics test and regrow the hair after i have changed a setting, other than styling the hair with spline i also do a bit in style mode, is there anyway i can save my hair style so i dont have to keep tweaking in style mode after I re-grow from splines?

So any advice as before again would be greatly appreciated

I look forward to your comments
(apologies for the long post : )
Regards
Ben
intel Q9550
4gig Ram(3.50)
32bit Win XP
3dsmax 2009 SP1 + hair hotfix
Ben Cox
Autodesk 3dsmax 2010
Win7 Home Edition 64 bit , 8 gig mem
gf9600
Please use plain text.
Moderator
Steve_Curley
Posts: 19,058
Registered: ‎08-07-2007

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 01:23 PM in reply to: benc_1
Would you try replying to the other thread again please? Just a quick post to see if you can. If you can, I'll move this thread to the original for you (better to keep it all in one place). If you can't, report it in the Website support forum.

Max 4.2 through 2015 (SP2+EXT1), Composite 2014.
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 335.23).

Please use plain text.
Active Contributor
benc_1
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-29-2009

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 02:48 PM in reply to: benc_1
just tried , it just says : Error Message: Unable to receive your submission at this time - will advise website support forum as advised
Ben Cox
Autodesk 3dsmax 2010
Win7 Home Edition 64 bit , 8 gig mem
gf9600
Please use plain text.
Moderator
Steve_Curley
Posts: 19,058
Registered: ‎08-07-2007

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 02:58 PM in reply to: benc_1
Curious - I can reply to the other thread no problem. Report it anyway.

Max 4.2 through 2015 (SP2+EXT1), Composite 2014.
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 335.23).

Please use plain text.
Active Contributor
benc_1
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-29-2009

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 03:01 PM in reply to: benc_1
i have mate, all done. its gone in support forums just checked , but its also displayed above this thread too?? dontknow if thats right either
Ben Cox
Autodesk 3dsmax 2010
Win7 Home Edition 64 bit , 8 gig mem
gf9600
Please use plain text.
Distinguished Contributor
krueger_1
Posts: 1,732
Registered: ‎07-23-2008

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 03:11 PM in reply to: benc_1
Since Ben's been having troubles with the other thread, I'll post on this one and maybe they can get consolidated later...

To cut a long story short, it just keeps crashing out after a few frames, 10-20 frames if im lucky, when rendering from a stat file. This is using Mr Prim hair render , with lights as before ,( see prior Screen shots) but also when i set it to buffer mode and composite method - normal , to see if it makes a difference the same happens.

This is just a standard crash error, "3ds max has an error and will now shut down" ok not quite like that but very similar; its not specific why. Just your standard error.

Are you rendering to an image sequence or one file (avi, mov, etc)? Did you try rendering in scanline to see if it works?

Right now, i just need to render something stable, i dont care what it looks like anymore, i need to know what i should be rendering in, like maybe i should use scanline and composite and render hair seperately because its just not stable enough for me to do even test renders at the moment for animation/dynamics wise.

You mentioned before about rendering with matte objects, can you elaborate on this?I can compositte in combustion I know about alpha channels , RPF and targas but my knowledge on what to render to in max for hair, put it together ,and how I exactly make a object matte is minimal-none..

You basically take anything that gets affected by your hair (with shadows, reflections or whatever) and assign it a Matte material. I would save it into a seperate scene and delete everything else that's not important. You can also use scanline if you want to speed up your rendering time, but you would have to probably redo your lighting...

Edit: I forgot to mention saving out to whatever file format you prefer that supports alpha channels (targa, png, etc...)

One other thing everytime i do a dynamics test and regrow the hair after i have changed a setting, other than styling the hair with spline i also do a bit in style mode, is there anyway i can save my hair style so i dont have to keep tweaking in style mode after I re-grow from splines?

What kind of settings are you talking about modifying? Can you save the presets or copy the hairdo under the tools rollout?
3ds Max 2009 SP1, 2010 SP1
Maya 2012
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Dual Intel Xeon E5520, 6 GB Ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 OC
Please use plain text.
Active Contributor
benc_1
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-29-2009

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 04:34 PM in reply to: benc_1
Hi

I rendered to JPEGS in all tests, always bombing out in every test . I get about 8 frames out in PAL D1 768x576 in buffer mode, and Mr Prim. the lower the resolution the more frames that will render but still talking like 20 out of 200.This is using mental ray. Yet to try scanline as the whole lighting messes up.

I think this is part of my confusion. Should i be sticking to one renderer overall and keeping the lighting compatible with the environment and hair and fur? or can i mental ray the environment and scanline the H& F?
In addition if the fur is rendered out seperately , the rest of the geometry how do i render that out so there is no H & F and in what format??

I have tried buffer mode and composite set to none while in mental ray, I have atached a print screen cos it doesn`t look right to me it looks like the render is unfinished but that could be me??( the maim is fine there is a sphere on the right set as a collision object so the circular cut out i know is fine) but i havent tried this with the same sequence yet as it looks completelywrong.

regarding the hair styling- i use the scale tool on the very top of the maim tip to make it longer than the spline can carry it in that one place to give it a kiinda mohawk. I have saved it to a pre-set but it doesn`tit hold the extra scaleing info when i load it back in. I have altered the splines also to emphasise the mohawk , but it doesnt carry much of the hair, but in styling it seems to grab a good bunch of hairs i can shift upwards.

cheers

Ben Cox
Autodesk 3dsmax 2010
Win7 Home Edition 64 bit , 8 gig mem
gf9600
Please use plain text.
Distinguished Contributor
krueger_1
Posts: 1,732
Registered: ‎07-23-2008

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 05:00 PM in reply to: benc_1
I rendered to JPEGS in all tests, always bombing out in every test . I get about 8 frames out in PAL D1 768x576 in buffer mode, and Mr Prim. the lower the resolution the more frames that will render but still talking like 20 out of 200.This is using mental ray. Yet to try scanline as the whole lighting messes up.

Does it give you a memory issue when it crashes? It can't hurt to increase the memory limit under Translator Options in the Processing tab of the render setup anyway.

I think this is part of my confusion. Should i be sticking to one renderer overall and keeping the lighting compatible with the environment and hair and fur? or can i mental ray the environment and scanline the H& F?
In addition if the fur is rendered out seperately , the rest of the geometry how do i render that out so there is no H & F and in what format??

Choosing which way you want to render is up to you. You can try and do it all in mental ray, but you can also set up the hair to render with scanline and composite later. Since you're having a good amount of problems getting the H&F to work with mr, you might consider rendering it out with scanline.

If you choose to split it up between the two, you can either turn off the H&F for the scene rendering with mental ray in the Effects panel (uncheck Active at the top), or just delete the effect and keep the H&F in it's own scene.
3ds Max 2009 SP1, 2010 SP1
Maya 2012
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Dual Intel Xeon E5520, 6 GB Ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 OC
Please use plain text.
Active Contributor
benc_1
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎01-29-2009

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 05:23 PM in reply to: benc_1
no memory issue when it crashes, thats whats strange, as i had that before back in the old days when i put the fur on a object with turbosmooth on, thats now removed and i made the proxy growth object with barely any polys, so i havent got a memory issue since.its the bog standard msg u get with no explanation. However I will certainly give ramping the memory limit up to see if it helps.

could you comment on my attachment though, has it rendered correctly as some random buckets of background can be seen yet its suposed to just render the hair right? (mental ray render again though ;P)

can I just clarify , if i use buffer for hair, STICK TO SCANLINE right and use selected lights which only affects the hair?

anytihg else like the environment rendered seperately i can do that whatever i like?

cheers for your help you have def thrown some light on this , i have some things to think about and try out now
Ben Cox
Autodesk 3dsmax 2010
Win7 Home Edition 64 bit , 8 gig mem
gf9600
Please use plain text.
Distinguished Contributor
krueger_1
Posts: 1,732
Registered: ‎07-23-2008

Re: HAIR and FUR Totally Unstable When Rendering Dynamics

03-19-2009 05:48 PM in reply to: benc_1
could you comment on my attachment though, has it rendered correctly as some random buckets of background can be seen yet its suposed to just render the hair right? (mental ray render again though ;P)

I get the same thing when setting None as my composite method. It seems to only remove the background from the buckets that have hair in them.

You can also look into the Render Elements tab in the renderer setup. There you can go to Add... and select Hair & Fur. What this does is renders out a seperate image with just the h&f with an alpha channel so you can composite it later. If you do this, you can add a Shadow element as well. Now you have your h&f on one pass and the shadows from your hair on another pass so you can composite them independently.

can I just clarify , if i use buffer for hair, STICK TO SCANLINE right and use selected lights which only affects the hair?
anytihg else like the environment rendered seperately i can do that whatever i like?

That's correct, but you want to make sure you have any other object that gets affected by the hairs in the same scene with the hairs so you can get the appropriate shadows, reflections, or whatever else may get affected.

Let me know if this all makes sense :smileyhappy:
3ds Max 2009 SP1, 2010 SP1
Maya 2012
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
Dual Intel Xeon E5520, 6 GB Ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 OC
Please use plain text.