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*clintonG
Message 1 of 11 (69 Views)

Will you support dxf

69 Views, 10 Replies
02-21-2006 10:23 AM
I've posted once already with no resonse and will try one more time.

Microsoft is asking for public comments regarding which vector file
formats they will support in their new Expression Suite [1] software
applications. I haven't seen one comment from any of you I recognize
that have posted to the Microsoft blog [2] which is being used to
collect comments.

So far, the dancing monkey file formats have an edge. Why?
Because the people who use illustration programs which generate vector files
are outspoken and are letting Microsoft know what they want while those who
think of themselves as professionals doing serious work with CAD which
requires technical skills have remained quiet.

I'm telling you lame brains (people skills at work here) we are on the
threshold of a new era of CAD and CAD users really, really, really need to
sit up and pay attention and let Microsoft know CAD users want and need
support for importing .dxf files.

If you don't "get it" that's okay you will sooner or later because the point
is, I know you all understand what a .dxf file is. If CAD users have the
opportunity to import .dxf into Expression Graphic Designer and Expression
Interactive Designer all CAD users will have support for a file format that
the Expression applications can use to transform and generate XAML
(eXtensible Application Markup Language which is a type of DXF file
expressed in XML using strongly typed data, i.e. text is a string and a
number is an integer etc.).

If CAD users do not have support for dxf there will be little use of XAML
applied to technical drawings and there will be no new jobs for people with
technical drafting skills who use software from Autodesk and other vendors
whose products save vector files in the drawing exchange format.

We really are on the threshold of a new era of CAD where drawings can be
converted to software programs. No, this won't replace AutoCAD or any other
"CAD program" but it will enable new jobs and new money making opportunities
not to mention of course altruistic results which benefit mankind.

I don't know, are you as CAD users not interested? I "see" a near future
for example where dual 30"x42" LCD monitors are used as virtual
representations of our real world supporting ink and touch interface to
allow people to interact with floor plans, the classical man-machine
interface with examples such as virtual interactive machines and interactive
parts. This can have a big impact on BIM for example and the imagination
then becomes the only boundary.

XAML is big news for .NET developers and I'm surprised not one
person has responded yet.

The time is today, now, as in right-now, to go and let Microsoft know you
would like to see support for the .dxf file format supported.

<%= Clinton Gallagher

[1] http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx
[2] http://blogs.msdn.com/mswanson/archive/2006/01/30/519733.aspx
*Murph
Message 2 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-21-2006 10:47 AM in reply to: *clintonG
Yawn.........

So you want me, little old cad user to tell the big guy at Microsoft to
support a 20+ yr old text format type of file?

Murph
*Tony Tanzillo
Message 3 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-21-2006 02:38 PM in reply to: *clintonG
Not sure where you've been, but rather than coming here and
insulting the entire group, and making a complete fool out of
yourself to boot, perhaps you should consider educating
yourself a bit, on recent trends and developments in the area
of graphic data exchange.

Autodesk is not pushing DXF any longer, and they've already
entered into strategic agreements with Microsoft relating to
DWF (you *do* know what DWF is, right?).

The implications of that, quite essentially mean that you are
doing little more than wasting your and our time.

--
http://www.caddzone.com

AcadXTabs: MDI Document Tabs for AuREMOVETHISmetromilwaukee.comtoCAD 2004/2005/2006
http://www.acadxtabs.com

"clintonG" wrote something not worth quoting.
Distinguished Contributor
RonnieWilkins
Posts: 454
Registered: ‎04-07-2003
Message 4 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-21-2006 07:00 PM in reply to: *clintonG
Well said Tony...

And for further proof here is a press release from Autodesk's site...

Microsoft and Autodesk Broaden Strategic Alliance to Enhance Productivity in Manufacturing, Engineering and Construction Industries

SAN RAFAEL, Calif., and REDMOND, Wash., December 13, 2005 — Autodesk, Inc. and Microsoft Corp. today announced an expansion of their existing strategic alliance to enable customers to more easily create, manage, and share critical design data at every stage of the project and product life-cycle processes. The companies announced the completion of the first phase of the expanded alliance, which includes the availability of new Autodesk DWF (Design Web Format) functionality to allow customers to easily integrate design information from Autodesk applications with Microsoft® Office applications and Microsoft Business Solutions–Great Plains® and Microsoft Business Solutions–Axapta®, now part of Microsoft Dynamics™.

As a part of the expanded alliance, the companies also agreed to further align their respective technologies, including expanded Microsoft support for Autodesk’s DWF functionality and plans for Autodesk to support Microsoft XAML (Extensible Application Markup Language).

“Microsoft and Autodesk are removing obstacles that prevent people from working together,” said Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft. “We recognize the important role Autodesk DWF technology plays in accelerating project workflows of many of our manufacturing, construction and engineering customers. By working with Autodesk, we’re connecting critical information across the enterprise and entire supply chains — and enabling our joint customers to become more competitive.”
Ronnie Wilkins, Jr.
AMS CAD + CAFM Solutions
Sr. Solutions Developer
Autodesk Certified Instructor: Inventor
*clintonG
Message 5 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-22-2006 05:34 PM in reply to: *clintonG
Autodesk is not the only vendor that supports DXF and I doubt other vendors
will be interested in paying Autodesk to license DWF.
I appreciate learning of the alliance as I had not read that press release
and it will be interesting to learn how it plays out but it still changes
nothing with regard to the needed support to import DXF into the Expression
Suite applications.

If you'll note Microsoft has stated there are no licensing fees to use XAML.
What does Autodesk have to offer with DWF?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


wrote in message news:5092767@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well said Tony...

And for further proof here is a press release from Autodesk's site...

Microsoft and Autodesk Broaden Strategic Alliance to Enhance Productivity in
Manufacturing, Engineering and Construction Industries

SAN RAFAEL, Calif., and REDMOND, Wash., December 13, 2005 - Autodesk, Inc.
and Microsoft Corp. today announced an expansion of their existing strategic
alliance to enable customers to more easily create, manage, and share
critical design data at every stage of the project and product life-cycle
processes. The companies announced the completion of the first phase of the
expanded alliance, which includes the availability of new Autodesk DWF
(Design Web Format) functionality to allow customers to easily integrate
design information from Autodesk applications with Microsoft® Office
applications and Microsoft Business Solutions-Great Plains® and Microsoft
Business Solutions-Axapta®, now part of Microsoft DynamicsT.

As a part of the expanded alliance, the companies also agreed to further
align their respective technologies, including expanded Microsoft support
for Autodesk's DWF functionality and plans for Autodesk to support Microsoft
XAML (Extensible Application Markup Language).

"Microsoft and Autodesk are removing obstacles that prevent people from
working together," said Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft. "We recognize the
important role Autodesk DWF technology plays in accelerating project
workflows of many of our manufacturing, construction and engineering
customers. By working with Autodesk, we're connecting critical information
across the enterprise and entire supply chains - and enabling our joint
customers to become more competitive."
Distinguished Contributor
NathTay
Posts: 1,691
Registered: ‎12-15-2003
Message 6 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-22-2006 05:43 PM in reply to: *clintonG
If the other vendors choose to use an outdated format they and there users will have to live with the consequences.

Regards - Nathan
*Tim Riley
Message 7 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-23-2006 06:32 AM in reply to: *clintonG
Read
http://www.autodesk.com.hk/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=1170102&id=3558821#section9.

--
Regards,
Tim
http://www.theswamp.org/~tim/pyacaddotnet/


"clintonG" wrote in message
news:5093773@discussion.autodesk.com...
Autodesk is not the only vendor that supports DXF and I doubt other vendors
will be interested in paying Autodesk to license DWF.
I appreciate learning of the alliance as I had not read that press release
and it will be interesting to learn how it plays out but it still changes
nothing with regard to the needed support to import DXF into the Expression
Suite applications.

If you'll note Microsoft has stated there are no licensing fees to use XAML.
What does Autodesk have to offer with DWF?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


wrote in message news:5092767@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well said Tony...

And for further proof here is a press release from Autodesk's site...

Microsoft and Autodesk Broaden Strategic Alliance to Enhance Productivity in
Manufacturing, Engineering and Construction Industries

SAN RAFAEL, Calif., and REDMOND, Wash., December 13, 2005 - Autodesk, Inc.
and Microsoft Corp. today announced an expansion of their existing strategic
alliance to enable customers to more easily create, manage, and share
critical design data at every stage of the project and product life-cycle
processes. The companies announced the completion of the first phase of the
expanded alliance, which includes the availability of new Autodesk DWF
(Design Web Format) functionality to allow customers to easily integrate
design information from Autodesk applications with Microsoft® Office
applications and Microsoft Business Solutions-Great Plains® and Microsoft
Business Solutions-Axapta®, now part of Microsoft DynamicsT.

As a part of the expanded alliance, the companies also agreed to further
align their respective technologies, including expanded Microsoft support
for Autodesk's DWF functionality and plans for Autodesk to support Microsoft
XAML (Extensible Application Markup Language).

"Microsoft and Autodesk are removing obstacles that prevent people from
working together," said Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft. "We recognize the
important role Autodesk DWF technology plays in accelerating project
workflows of many of our manufacturing, construction and engineering
customers. By working with Autodesk, we're connecting critical information
across the enterprise and entire supply chains - and enabling our joint
customers to become more competitive."
*clintonG
Message 8 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-23-2006 11:36 AM in reply to: *clintonG
I think I've read that already. Did you scrutinize the following shown at
the bottom of that page?

* This product is subject to the terms and conditions of the end-user
license agreement that accompanies download of the software.

The point is as I recall that footnote or another leads to licensing
requirements stating a developer is not free to use anything Autodesk
develops without showing them the code and asking their permission which can
be denied of course. There is a clause (again as I recall) that states
nobody is permitted to develop software that competes which Autodesk.

<%= Clinton Gallagher




"Tim Riley" wrote in message
news:5094057@discussion.autodesk.com...
Read
http://www.autodesk.com.hk/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=1170102&id=3558821#section9.

--
Regards,
Tim
http://www.theswamp.org/~tim/pyacaddotnet/


"clintonG" wrote in message
news:5093773@discussion.autodesk.com...
Autodesk is not the only vendor that supports DXF and I doubt other vendors
will be interested in paying Autodesk to license DWF.
I appreciate learning of the alliance as I had not read that press release
and it will be interesting to learn how it plays out but it still changes
nothing with regard to the needed support to import DXF into the Expression
Suite applications.

If you'll note Microsoft has stated there are no licensing fees to use XAML.
What does Autodesk have to offer with DWF?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


wrote in message news:5092767@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well said Tony...

And for further proof here is a press release from Autodesk's site...

Microsoft and Autodesk Broaden Strategic Alliance to Enhance Productivity in
Manufacturing, Engineering and Construction Industries

SAN RAFAEL, Calif., and REDMOND, Wash., December 13, 2005 - Autodesk, Inc.
and Microsoft Corp. today announced an expansion of their existing strategic
alliance to enable customers to more easily create, manage, and share
critical design data at every stage of the project and product life-cycle
processes. The companies announced the completion of the first phase of the
expanded alliance, which includes the availability of new Autodesk DWF
(Design Web Format) functionality to allow customers to easily integrate
design information from Autodesk applications with Microsoft® Office
applications and Microsoft Business Solutions-Great Plains® and Microsoft
Business Solutions-Axapta®, now part of Microsoft DynamicsT.

As a part of the expanded alliance, the companies also agreed to further
align their respective technologies, including expanded Microsoft support
for Autodesk's DWF functionality and plans for Autodesk to support Microsoft
XAML (Extensible Application Markup Language).

"Microsoft and Autodesk are removing obstacles that prevent people from
working together," said Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft. "We recognize the
important role Autodesk DWF technology plays in accelerating project
workflows of many of our manufacturing, construction and engineering
customers. By working with Autodesk, we're connecting critical information
across the enterprise and entire supply chains - and enabling our joint
customers to become more competitive."
*Tim Riley
Message 9 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-23-2006 01:03 PM in reply to: *clintonG
WRONG!!!!!!

From http://www.autodesk.com.hk/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=3148996


1 LICENSE GRANT

1.1 Autodesk grants to you ("Licensee") a perpetual, nontransferable,
nonexclusive, royalty-free, limited license to:

1.1.1 (a) Use the Licensed Software for development, research,
internal, educational, or commercial purposes; (b) Modify the Licensed
Software to create derivative works and applications, including ports; and
(c) Compile the Licensed Software, derivative works and applications
prepared in accordance with subsection 1.1.1(b) into binary code.

1.1.2 Reproduce, distribute and sublicense free of charge or for a
fee the Licensed Software in binary code form in conjunction with
derivative works or applications created by Licensee or licensed from third
parties by Licensee, provided, that: (a) Licensee makes no use of Autodesk's
trademarks, trade names, or trade dress; (b) In the event Licensee makes any
modification to the Licensed Software, Licensee must publish the
specification for such modifications for use by third party developers and
provide Autodesk with a copy thereof; and (c) The Licensee must sublicense
the Licensed Software "as is", without warranty of any kind.
1.1.3 Reproduce, distribute and sublicense free of charge to
sublicensees the source code of the unmodified Licensed Software, provided
that (a) Licensee must state in its sublicenses that the Licensed Software
is being distributed pursuant to a license granted by Autodesk, Inc.; (b)The
terms of sublicenses granted by Licensee must (i) contain all applicable
terms of this Agreement, and (ii) not be broader than the terms of the
license granted by this Agreement; (c) Licensee must exactly reproduce
Autodesk's copyright and other proprietary rights notices which accompany
the copy of the Licensed Software licensed by Autodesk to Licensee; and (d)
Licensee shall conspicuously state in its sublicenses that the Licensed
Software is offered "as is", without warranty of any kind.
1.1.4 Reproduce, distribute and sublicense the source code of the
Licensed Software as modified by Licensee, provided that (a) Licensee must
state in its sublicense that the Licensed Software has been modified by
Licensee; (b) Licensee must exactly reproduce Autodesk's copyright and other
proprietary rights notices which accompany the copy of the Licensed Software
licensed by Autodesk to Licensee; (c) As to the unmodified portions of the
Licensed Software, the terms of the sublicenses granted by Licensee must (i)
contain all applicable terms of this Agreement, and (ii) not be broader than
the terms of the license granted by this Agreement; (d) Licensee must
conspicuously state in its sublicenses that the original, unmodified
portions of the Licensed Software are offered "as is", without warranty of
any kind; and (e) Licensee must (i) publish the modified Licensed Software
to the Worldwide Web, (ii) make available with the modified Licensed
Software documentation which describes in detail the modifications which
Licensee has made to the Licensed Software, and (iii) provide to Autodesk a
copy of the modified Licensed Software and the documentation.

--
Regards,
Tim
http://www.theswamp.org/~tim/pyacaddotnet/



"clintonG" wrote in message
news:5094494@discussion.autodesk.com...
I think I've read that already. Did you scrutinize the following shown at
the bottom of that page?

* This product is subject to the terms and conditions of the end-user
license agreement that accompanies download of the software.

The point is as I recall that footnote or another leads to licensing
requirements stating a developer is not free to use anything Autodesk
develops without showing them the code and asking their permission which can
be denied of course. There is a clause (again as I recall) that states
nobody is permitted to develop software that competes which Autodesk.

<%= Clinton Gallagher




"Tim Riley" wrote in message
news:5094057@discussion.autodesk.com...
Read
http://www.autodesk.com.hk/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=1170102&id=3558821#section9.

--
Regards,
Tim
http://www.theswamp.org/~tim/pyacaddotnet/


"clintonG" wrote in message
news:5093773@discussion.autodesk.com...
Autodesk is not the only vendor that supports DXF and I doubt other vendors
will be interested in paying Autodesk to license DWF.
I appreciate learning of the alliance as I had not read that press release
and it will be interesting to learn how it plays out but it still changes
nothing with regard to the needed support to import DXF into the Expression
Suite applications.

If you'll note Microsoft has stated there are no licensing fees to use XAML.
What does Autodesk have to offer with DWF?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


wrote in message news:5092767@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well said Tony...

And for further proof here is a press release from Autodesk's site...

Microsoft and Autodesk Broaden Strategic Alliance to Enhance Productivity in
Manufacturing, Engineering and Construction Industries

SAN RAFAEL, Calif., and REDMOND, Wash., December 13, 2005 - Autodesk, Inc.
and Microsoft Corp. today announced an expansion of their existing strategic
alliance to enable customers to more easily create, manage, and share
critical design data at every stage of the project and product life-cycle
processes. The companies announced the completion of the first phase of the
expanded alliance, which includes the availability of new Autodesk DWF
(Design Web Format) functionality to allow customers to easily integrate
design information from Autodesk applications with Microsoft® Office
applications and Microsoft Business Solutions-Great Plains® and Microsoft
Business Solutions-Axapta®, now part of Microsoft DynamicsT.

As a part of the expanded alliance, the companies also agreed to further
align their respective technologies, including expanded Microsoft support
for Autodesk's DWF functionality and plans for Autodesk to support Microsoft
XAML (Extensible Application Markup Language).

"Microsoft and Autodesk are removing obstacles that prevent people from
working together," said Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft. "We recognize the
important role Autodesk DWF technology plays in accelerating project
workflows of many of our manufacturing, construction and engineering
customers. By working with Autodesk, we're connecting critical information
across the enterprise and entire supply chains - and enabling our joint
customers to become more competitive."
*Tony Tanzillo
Message 10 of 11 (69 Views)

Re: Will you support dxf

02-23-2006 01:30 PM in reply to: *clintonG
It's a bit difficult for others to take you seriuosly, after
you just demonstrated that you don't even understand
the difference between a file format (that is published
and open), and a product that views files in that format.

Please go learn something about the difference
between software licensing and file format icensing.

--
http://www.caddzone.com

AcadXTabs: MDI Document Tabs for AutoCAD 2004/2005/2006
http://www.acadxtabs.com

"clintonG" wrote in message news:5094494@discussion.autodesk.com...
I think I've read that already. Did you scrutinize the following shown at
the bottom of that page?

* This product is subject to the terms and conditions of the end-user
license agreement that accompanies download of the software.

The point is as I recall that footnote or another leads to licensing
requirements stating a developer is not free to use anything Autodesk
develops without showing them the code and asking their permission which can
be denied of course. There is a clause (again as I recall) that states
nobody is permitted to develop software that competes which Autodesk.

<%= Clinton Gallagher




"Tim Riley" wrote in message
news:5094057@discussion.autodesk.com...
Read
http://www.autodesk.com.hk/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=1170102&id=3558821#section9.

--
Regards,
Tim
http://www.theswamp.org/~tim/pyacaddotnet/


"clintonG" wrote in message
news:5093773@discussion.autodesk.com...
Autodesk is not the only vendor that supports DXF and I doubt other vendors
will be interested in paying Autodesk to license DWF.
I appreciate learning of the alliance as I had not read that press release
and it will be interesting to learn how it plays out but it still changes
nothing with regard to the needed support to import DXF into the Expression
Suite applications.

If you'll note Microsoft has stated there are no licensing fees to use XAML.
What does Autodesk have to offer with DWF?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


wrote in message news:5092767@discussion.autodesk.com...
Well said Tony...

And for further proof here is a press release from Autodesk's site...

Microsoft and Autodesk Broaden Strategic Alliance to Enhance Productivity in
Manufacturing, Engineering and Construction Industries

SAN RAFAEL, Calif., and REDMOND, Wash., December 13, 2005 - Autodesk, Inc.
and Microsoft Corp. today announced an expansion of their existing strategic
alliance to enable customers to more easily create, manage, and share
critical design data at every stage of the project and product life-cycle
processes. The companies announced the completion of the first phase of the
expanded alliance, which includes the availability of new Autodesk DWF
(Design Web Format) functionality to allow customers to easily integrate
design information from Autodesk applications with Microsoft® Office
applications and Microsoft Business Solutions-Great Plains® and Microsoft
Business Solutions-Axapta®, now part of Microsoft DynamicsT.

As a part of the expanded alliance, the companies also agreed to further
align their respective technologies, including expanded Microsoft support
for Autodesk's DWF functionality and plans for Autodesk to support Microsoft
XAML (Extensible Application Markup Language).

"Microsoft and Autodesk are removing obstacles that prevent people from
working together," said Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft. "We recognize the
important role Autodesk DWF technology plays in accelerating project
workflows of many of our manufacturing, construction and engineering
customers. By working with Autodesk, we're connecting critical information
across the enterprise and entire supply chains - and enabling our joint
customers to become more competitive."
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