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Where are Clash Rules Stored?

8 REPLIES 8
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Message 1 of 9
DilloinPDX
1835 Views, 8 Replies

Where are Clash Rules Stored?

I'm dealing with a NWF that I access from different machines.  Sometimes from a notebook, other times connected to a desktop loaded with ram, other times running scripted actions on a server class machine.  

 

What I'm noticing that if I look at the rules for the clash tests on one machine, all of my custom rules are there.  When I go to another machine, those rules don't appear for the exact same test.  Which makes me wonder where they exist and how are they stored. There appears to be no way to export the rules specifically, only the tests overall.  Which does seem to transfer the rules but why would I see the rules for the exact same file change based on what machine I'm using?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

8 REPLIES 8
Message 2 of 9
DilloinPDX
in reply to: DilloinPDX

Really?  Is this some closely guarded secret? Or is it painfully obvious and not documented?

Message 3 of 9
DilloinPDX
in reply to: DilloinPDX

Well this has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  Rules are NOT part of the NWF for clash detection but seem to be populated to any exported clash test.  The file that controls these seems to be "rules".  No extension, just "rules" and it is located in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk Navisworks Manage 2015\clash\  

 

So if you have an NWF for clash tests, that is used by multiple machines, the rules won't be applied universally.  The person creating the tests and rules will have all the pieces. The next person or next machine will lose any custom rules that have been applied (no change to NWF).  Also if you have a machine that automates the running of clash tests, it will skip these rules also.  

 

Anyone know WHY? This seems pretty silly.  I could understand having a file that contains rules, but I would expect them to follow the nwf, not disappear if NWF is moved to a new machine or accessed from a different machine.  

 

For reference, they can be transferred in a way.  Export your tests to an xml file.  Import those same tests into a blank NWF, then open the NWF that uses them.  (If you import clash tests into your existing file, it will duplicate all tests).  

Message 4 of 9
IanBadcoe
in reply to: DilloinPDX

Hi,

 

This is an area of UI that sometimes confuses users but under-the-hood Navisworks does do the right thing as regards your clash results.

 

The NWF (or NWD) does contain rules, however it only contains the ones that are turned on for the tests in that file, not all the ones defined on the original machine.

- The reason for this is that often users work for contractors who are working one more than one project.  They will not want to export all the rules from all their projects when they send a file to another company.

 

On the other hand on each machine, each user account retains copies of all the rules he has ever seen (unless he manually deletes them.)

- The reason for this is that a single user may have spent a lot of time creating rules, and may want to re-use them in many files.  Similarly he does not want them to disappear just because they are not currently enabled in a test.

 

When uses want to share rules they can:

1) exchange a test with that rule turned on, either as an NWD/NWF (it doesn't need to contain much model data)

2) use a communal rules file in a shared "project" or "site" folder (configured for the whole team) although now somebody will have to take responsibility for maintaining that file

 

If you can identify any situation where the software loses rules configuration for a clash test, then that is a serious issue and please report it.

 

I hope this is helpful,

 

Ian

Message 5 of 9
DilloinPDX
in reply to: IanBadcoe

Ian, thanks for your response!

 

I am definitely seeing a scenario where the rules are not being applied.  I have a NWF that is on a server.  I have a machine I work on to group clashes, name them, and set an appropriate viewport. I also use it to generate reports for others to review.  We use another machine that runs an automated script, created in-house, to run the clash tests over night.  That machine has a faster processor.  When reviewing results I noticed many of the clashes were showing up that should have been caught by rules I set up (for example If one element is Structural Column and the other is Floor).  Given that I recently got a new machine and I noticed that all my rules were missing then, I finally made the connection. I'm running it now on a machine that has all the rules available to get updated clashes, due to the problems with the automated machine.  

 

So yes, I am seeing the scenario where rules are not moving with the NWF from machine to machine or user to user.  How would you like for me to document it?

 

Tom Whitehead

SSOE Inc, Hillsboro

Message 6 of 9
IanBadcoe
in reply to: DilloinPDX

Hi Tom,

 

We need to narrow down exactly how the problem is happening.

 

Can you share files with us?  Can you make an NWF that is small but still has the problem?  (This just makes it much faster to look at... e.g. you might have only one model, one clash test and one (newly created) rule...)

If you can give me the NWF and also the model files that it references?  Then I will try to reproduce your problem on a pair of machines here.

 

A few thoughts/tests that may change things:

 

1) How and when does the copy of the NWF from your local machine to the overnight machine happen?  If that is automatic, is it possible that Navisworks on your machine still has it open.

 

2) When you are copying the NWF from machine to machine, are the model files also moving, or are they at a shared location?

 

3) If you open roamer on the overnight machine, does the UI show the rules you would expect?  (I would expect to see all the rules that are enabled for any test in the NWF, but not any that are not, and obviously each test should have the same set of rules enabled (checked) as on your other machine.  Note that I think duplicate rules may get renamed when if they find themselves displaying together, but their definitions do not change...)

 

4) With your new machine, if it is totally new and you copy one NWF onto it, you should see just those rules that were turned on in some test in the NWF.  Everything else is assumed not to be part of that NWF and left behind on your old machine, but this (if it is working) won't change the clash test behaviour (because the missing rules weren't in use...)  Is this what you saw?

 

5) Finally, can you confirm that the Navisworks installs on all the machines are the same version?  You look in the "add/remove programs" control pannel to see version numbers, or in about box you will find the build number.  It is the numbers on the end that tell us whether you have RTM, SP1 etc...

 

Regards,

 

Ian

Message 7 of 9
DilloinPDX
in reply to: IanBadcoe

1) How and when does the copy of the NWF from your local machine to the overnight machine happen?  If that is automatic, is it possible that Navisworks on your machine still has it open.

 

File is not copied, it lives on a server and is accessed directly from each macine.

 

2) When you are copying the NWF from machine to machine, are the model files also moving, or are they at a shared location?

Again, everything is on the server.  No copies. 

 

3) If you open roamer on the overnight machine, does the UI show the rules you would expect?  (I would expect to see all the rules that are enabled for any test in the NWF, but not any that are not, and obviously each test should have the same set of rules enabled (checked) as on your other machine.  Note that I think duplicate rules may get renamed when if they find themselves displaying together, but their definitions do not change...)

I don't have login access to that machine.  I'll see if I can get that handled.  The automated script runs as a specific user so I need to get access to that login.

 

 

4) With your new machine, if it is totally new and you copy one NWF onto it, you should see just those rules that were turned on in some test in the NWF.  Everything else is assumed not to be part of that NWF and left behind on your old machine, but this (if it is working) won't change the clash test behaviour (because the missing rules weren't in use...)  Is this what you saw?

Again, we didn't copy any files.  It is on the server.  I opened the NWF on the new machine, checked rules and all of the custom rules were missing.  Don't remember if rules were applied in test or not.  I got the rules to populate by exporting tests from old machine, then importing on new machine (which duplicated every test in nwf), closed NWF without saving and re-opened.  Rules were then available. 

 

 

5) Finally, can you confirm that the Navisworks installs on all the machines are the same version?  You look in the "add/remove programs" control pannel to see version numbers, or in about box you will find the build number.  It is the numbers on the end that tell us whether you have RTM, SP1 etc...

Again, I'll have to get access to the machine.  Currently it runs independently and is in a server closet.  I'll see what I can do.  I do know that all installs of Navismanage 2015 are being updated through policy so it should be running the latest (ur3) updates.  I'll work on getting that. 

 

Thanks again for your help.  

 

Tom Whitehead

SSOE Inc.

Message 8 of 9
DilloinPDX
in reply to: IanBadcoe

Ian,

Regarding the file, the client won't let us post that due to IP. I'll mock something up using some generic files. I don't think it is the issue but I'll make a decent test file.
Message 9 of 9
IanBadcoe
in reply to: DilloinPDX

>>4) With your new machine, if it is totally new and you copy one NWF onto it, you should see just those rules that were turned on in some test in the NWF. 

>>Everything else is assumed not to be part of that NWF and left behind on your old machine, but this (if it is working) won't change the clash test behaviour

>>(because the missing rules weren't in use...)  Is this what you saw?

>Again, we didn't copy any files.  It is on the server.  I opened the NWF on the new machine, checked rules and all of the custom rules were missing.  Don't

>remember if rules were applied in test or not.  I got the rules to populate by exporting tests from old machine, then importing on new machine (which duplicated

>every test in nwf), closed NWF without saving and re-opened.  Rules were then available. 

 

Ah...  this may be a crucial point.

 

Custom rules are only included in an NWF file when they are in use in the file.  This is for the reason I outlined previously, namely not wanting to propogate every rule to every user irrespective of what company or projec they are on.  This shouldn't ever change results, however, since the required rules are included.

 

So...  it may be that the shorter custom rules list is a red herring.  Possibly the fastest thing you can do here is:

 

1) (temporarily) move the custom rules file so that you can look at the "new user" situation again (with NW not running)

2) open an NWF which definitely uses some custom rules

3) see whether those rules appear in your "new" account

4) put your custom rules back

 

I suspect the required rules will appear--although anything is possible.  If so, then we are looking for some other difference between the overnight machine and your machine.  Looking at the UI on the overnight machine might be informative, and you should double-check the version (although from what you say it sounds like it will be the same).  However another useful question is how does the overight machine run the clash tests?  Does it use a custom plugin?  If so, is it .NET or COM.  Could you share the code?

 

Otherwise your simple test file may reveal the problem, or it may be tied to some specific data in the client's files.

 

Regards,

 

Ian

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