Mechanical Desktop

Mechanical Desktop

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*Hans Rosbergen
Message 21 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

10-17-2008 11:02 AM in reply to: sjbosley

Don't be ignorent, some companies have spent a lot
of money on this software and on producing with it. And Autodesk is
not offering them any more relief then to swallow it. Great.


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It actually makes it more efficient in large designs. All
other 3D modelers also have the multiple file type formats for that same
reason. There will come a time when everyone will have to change.


--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor Certified
Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified
Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr.
AIP 2008 SP2, AIP 2009-SP1
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HP zv5000  AMD64 2GB - Geforce Go 440, Driver: .8185
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Pro SP2, Windows XP Silver Theme

href="http://teknigroup.com">http://teknigroup.com
*Dennis Jeffrey
Message 22 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

10-17-2008 01:13 PM in reply to: sjbosley

Not ignorant. I wrote two books on Mechanical Desktop. I know
it's strengths AND weaknesses inside and out. There are some things that MDT is
best suited for... and some areas that Inventor wins hands down. I use both...
and have since the original versions of both products.

 

However, there will come a time when everyone will have to
switch. Don't put your head in the sand because you prefer MDT. That is a
dangerous course of action.


--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor Certified
Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified
Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr.
AIP 2008 SP2, AIP 2009-SP1
PcCillin AV
HP zv5000  AMD64 2GB - Geforce Go 440, Driver: .8185
XP
Pro SP2, Windows XP Silver Theme

href="http://teknigroup.com">http://teknigroup.com
*Chas
Message 23 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

10-17-2008 07:29 PM in reply to: sjbosley

Oh, so we're all suppose to feel good about
spending 13 years building a business and customer base that we now cannot
contunue to serve.

I get it,...the old scr*w you
attitude.

Somehow that just doesn't seem funny.

 

I'll use the software as is for as long as possible
and move over to the only other acceptable software for my customer base (Pro
E).

Then I can tell Autodesk Scr*w you the same way
they have us!

 

Aug


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Not ignorant. I wrote two books on Mechanical Desktop. I
know it's strengths AND weaknesses inside and out. There are some things that
MDT is best suited for... and some areas that Inventor wins hands down. I use
both... and have since the original versions of both products.

 

However, there will come a time when everyone will have to
switch. Don't put your head in the sand because you prefer MDT. That is a
dangerous course of action.


--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor Certified
Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified
Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr.
AIP 2008 SP2, AIP 2009-SP1
PcCillin AV
HP zv5000  AMD64 2GB - Geforce Go 440, Driver: .8185
XP
Pro SP2, Windows XP Silver Theme

href="http://teknigroup.com">http://teknigroup.com
*Dennis Jeffrey
Message 24 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

10-18-2008 05:30 AM in reply to: sjbosley

Some of the Pro/E data formats:

 

.prt - Part File

.asm - Assembly file

.drw - Drawing (2D) file

.dwg - dwg export file (no association back to model or
assembly)

 

How are these different than Inventors?

 


.ipt - Part File

.iam - Assembly file

.idw - Drawing (2D) file

.dwg - dwg export file (no association back to model or
assembly)

Inventor .dwg - Associative to the model and assembly files, but not
editable in AutoCAD

 

Here are some usage paths between Mechanical Desktop/AutoCAD Mechanical and
Inventor:

 

Inventor parts and assemblies may be fully detailed with AutoCAD
Mechanical, instead of being detailed in an Inventor IDW file. This will result
in full use of AutoCAD style dimensioning, standard blocks etc. This AutoCAD
mechanical file is fully associative back to the Inventor part and assembly
files and will reflect any changes made in the original source files.

 

Mechanical Desktop part and assembly files, complete with 2-D layout sheets
can be fully translated into Inventor part, assembly and fully associative IDW
2-D drawing layouts or sheets as they are called in Inventor.

 

Mechanical Desktop part files can be utilized in Inventor assemblies "as
is" without translation. Should the MDT part file need editing, all editing will
be done in mechanical desktop.

 

Autodesk's stated in the original post, that they would continue to provide
Mechanical Desktop 2009. They are not abandoning current users.

 

*******************************************************************

If everyone is truly concerned about the inability to move over to Inventor
at some time in the future, please post a request here and I will schedule a
free live online training session for all concerned were you will be able to see
just how all of the methods that I just explained work. You will be able to ask
any question during the session and I will be glad to answer any question that I
can regarding your issues.


Please understand that I've always been a fan of Mechanical Desktop, and then
I made a very similar emotional decision regarding Inventor when it was first
announced over 10 years ago. Possibly many or most of you tried Inventor through
the years, and may have also made an emotional decision because it was so
different than AutoCAD and Mechanical Desktop. It took me until Inventor 5.3 to
understand why Autodesk decided on a different path for 3-D modeling.


 

 
--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor
Certified Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified
Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr.
AIP 2008 SP2, AIP 2009-SP1
PcCillin AV
HP zv5000  AMD64 2GB - Geforce Go 440, Driver: .8185
XP
Pro SP2, Windows XP Silver Theme

href="http://teknigroup.com">http://teknigroup.com
Contributor
danielfloren
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎01-11-2008
Message 25 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

11-12-2008 11:03 AM in reply to: sjbosley
Mr. Bosley,

Please explain if you can, the specific reasons that are behind Autodesk's discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop.
I for one would really like to know why as an AutoCAD user from the very beginning and a loyal customer, that I'm now
being told that I no longer matter to Autodesk.

Thank you for your time,

Daniel L. Floren
Sr. Design Engineer / Drafting Dept. Supervisor
Applied Machinery Corp.
Houston Texas
Contributor
danielfloren
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎01-11-2008
Message 26 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

11-12-2008 12:45 PM in reply to: sjbosley
Mr. Jeffrey,

You present a valid point with regard to moving to Inventor. However, unlike you, I was not allowed to waste valuable production time and company resources playing around with and trying to learn the ins and outs of Inventor when it first appeared. Most of the companies I have worked for over the years did not want to make the move to Inventor due to the high cost of the software and the time required to train their designers to be productive with a new 3D design package.

It one point, a company I worked for did try to move to Inventor and SolidWorks as well. They sent one designer to an Inventor training class and another to a SolidWorks class. Both designers were Mechanical DeskTop users and they both were dam near as good as I was using Mechanical DeskTop. I suspect you understand why the company tried Inventor and SolidWorks at the same time...!

After both classes were complete at a very high cost in dollars and lost production time I might add, I gave both designers the same task to complete. To make things even more interesting I sat down in front of Mechanical DeskTop to perform the same task. Would you like to make a bet as to who finished the task first? How about who finished second...??? Please note, this task include producing a set of 2D drawings 4 to be exact that for all intents and porpoises had to matched our company standard.

Just for the record,

Mechanical DeskTop..... 1 hour 12 min. Senior Engineer signed off the first issue drawings.
SolidWorks................... 5 hours 31 min first issue not approved. 1 call to support Rev-4 approved total hours 12 hours 43 min.
Inventor......................... After screwing with the task for 2 days and 6 calls to support I pulled the plug.

Maybe just maybe if we had a week or two (or YOU) the task could have been completed a bit sooner.

Final note: After 4 months of evaluation of both Inventor and SolidWorks the company went with SolidWorks as it's 3D development software.
And still uses it today.

I do not doubt that given enough time, all the Mechanical DeskTop users out here now in limbo land because of AutoDesk could conceivably learn to use Inventor well enough to once again be productive and save their companies money. I however don't see many companies in this financial climate sucking up the cost involved in required training and lost productivity. And trust me when I say REQUIRED TRAINING...!!!

But then again, what do you think is leading AutoDesk to belive we will all make the move to Inventor...? I don't know about the other MDT users but in my Book... Loyalty works both ways.

In my opinion, for what it's worth... Mechanical DeskTop should be broken out and re-tooled as a stand-alone 3D design tool not requiring an Inventor license or AutoCAD Mechanical to run. As far as continued support for MDT-2009 it could continue as it is now, NON-EXISTENT.

Think of it this way, MDT is as good as it will ever be and / or was intended to be. So, don't waste money trying to improve something that is not broken. The users improve it every day by adding there own Lisp code and VB routines. Just rename it every now and then, ie; MDT-2010 and offer an up-grade that includes user improvements at a reasonable cost to cover LISP and VB additions and shipping and handling.

I think you'd be AMAZED to find out how many users would stay loyal and continue to use MDT-2008 / 2009.

Okay, your thoughts...!!!
Contributor
danielfloren
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎01-11-2008
Message 27 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

11-12-2008 12:45 PM in reply to: sjbosley
Mr. Jeffrey,

You present a valid point with regard to moving to Inventor. However, unlike you, I was not allowed to waste valuable production time and company resources playing around with and trying to learn the ins and outs of Inventor when it first appeared. Most of the companies I have worked for over the years did not want to make the move to Inventor due to the high cost of the software and the time required to train their designers to be productive with a new 3D design package.

It one point, a company I worked for did try to move to Inventor and SolidWorks as well. They sent one designer to an Inventor training class and another to a SolidWorks class. Both designers were Mechanical DeskTop users and they both were dam near as good as I was using Mechanical DeskTop. I suspect you understand why the company tried Inventor and SolidWorks at the same time...!

After both classes were complete at a very high cost in dollars and lost production time I might add, I gave both designers the same task to complete. To make things even more interesting I sat down in front of Mechanical DeskTop to perform the same task. Would you like to make a bet as to who finished the task first? How about who finished second...??? Please note, this task include producing a set of 2D drawings 4 to be exact that for all intents and porpoises had to matched our company standard.

Just for the record,

Mechanical DeskTop..... 1 hour 12 min. Senior Engineer signed off the first issue drawings.
SolidWorks................... 5 hours 31 min first issue not approved. 1 call to support Rev-4 approved total hours 12 hours 43 min.
Inventor......................... After screwing with the task for 2 days and 6 calls to support I pulled the plug.

Maybe just maybe if we had a week or two (or YOU) the task could have been completed a bit sooner.

Final note: After 4 months of evaluation of both Inventor and SolidWorks the company went with SolidWorks as it's 3D development software.
And still uses it today.

I do not doubt that given enough time, all the Mechanical DeskTop users out here now in limbo land because of AutoDesk could conceivably learn to use Inventor well enough to once again be productive and save their companies money. I however don't see many companies in this financial climate sucking up the cost involved in required training and lost productivity. And trust me when I say REQUIRED TRAINING...!!!

But then again, what do you think is leading AutoDesk to belive we will all make the move to Inventor...? I don't know about the other MDT users but in my Book... Loyalty works both ways.

In my opinion, for what it's worth... Mechanical DeskTop should be broken out and re-tooled as a stand-alone 3D design tool not requiring an Inventor license or AutoCAD Mechanical to run. As far as continued support for MDT-2009 it could continue as it is now, NON-EXISTENT.

Think of it this way, MDT is as good as it will ever be and / or was intended to be. So, don't waste money trying to improve something that is not broken. The users improve it every day by adding there own Lisp code and VB routines. Just rename it every now and then, ie; MDT-2010 and offer an up-grade that includes user improvements at a reasonable cost to cover LISP and VB additions and shipping and handling.

I think you'd be AMAZED to find out how many users would stay loyal and continue to use MDT-2008 / 2009.

Okay, your thoughts...!!!
Contributor
danielfloren
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎01-11-2008
Message 28 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

11-12-2008 12:51 PM in reply to: sjbosley
If I read your reply to Aug really fast, it almost sounds like you care... NOT...!!!
*Aug
Message 29 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

11-12-2008 01:54 PM in reply to: sjbosley

Daniel,

My main issue with IV is the format and file
system.

I need the dwg format to be compliant with
submittals.

I need a system that can be achieved and retrieved
easily.

I don't need links to libraries and parts and
assemblies to a drawing.

 

I localize my parts and assemblies and can carry
projects in a single file (parts, assemblies, and all drawing
sheets).

In this respect IV is a total mess.

That does not even take into account the file space
needed.

 

I did a comparison on a set of cabinets from IV and
MDT. The single MDT file was just over 8 meg, the IV files amounted to just over
42 meg.

 

Aug
Contributor
danielfloren
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎01-11-2008
Message 30 of 93 (374 Views)

Re: Announcement concerning Discontinuation of Mechanical Desktop

11-12-2008 02:17 PM in reply to: sjbosley
Aug,

I agree 100% and most if not all MDT users will also agree. The problem is, AutoDesk is not looking at this from a perspective of a mechanical designer working in a fast passed production enviroment. They look at everything they do as if a very large (ie; GM) company with many departments needing acces to the same part/assemblies/dwg files from all over the company...! From personal experance I know Engineering firms love Inventor. However they don't work in a production enviroment where file storage is scarse. They have servers with Terrbyte storage and typically create drawings that are totally useless to the real world.

Lets see, the last time I checked GM does not use Inventor...!

Well anyway, this is a mute subject. AutoDesk will do what it wants to do and screw the little guy.

Sorry, no spell check... no time.

Daniel
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