Duplicate Special - Shading?

[bthatcher]

After duplicate special, the resulting duplicate isnt shaded. It's black. How can I fix this? Thanks.

[paulkind]

The normals are probably whacked out.  Easy to fix though.  If your watching the MayaLT to DOta2 video I did, there is a mistake in it where I have people using duplicate special over the -1 scale.  Not sure how I didnt notice it because I actually do it a few times.  You arent watching that series are you?

Either way here is the fix...

Select Modify > Freeze Transformations

That should fix your issue.

[bthatcher]

I'm not watching them, but I will check them out. I'm new to Maya. Thank you!

[paulkind]

did the fix work for you?

[bthatcher]

No, i'm afraid not. I am receiving the error 'Cannot freeze below transform due to multiple-instanced child'. I'm watching your video now actually. But to be clear about your response post, you don't recommend using duplicate special? I am using duplicate special to duplicate one quad to the other 3. See the image for my settings. I am only having the problem where I duplicate it in one direction, either X or Z. But if I duplicate it in both directions, it comes out fine. One issue I'm having using duplicate special like this is I need to keep switching the symmetry axis. Can you recommend a better way. Thanks!

[paulkind]

No, you can use the duplicate special, its fine.  But if you duplicate -1 scale (like I advise in the video), it will reverse all the normals and make everything black.  Your effectively turning the entire model inside out.  To fix this, you simply "freeze transforms". 

In your case it sounds like a similar but not the same problem.  My guess is that you did it as an instance and when an instance, it is not a able to be frozen because it is using reference geometry.

Here should be the steps to fix your issue.

1. Select one of the objects (the one broken would likely be best)

2. Select Modify > Convert (all the way at the bottom 2nd to last on the list) > Instance to Object (also 2nd to last on the list)

--> This step above will have made the object unique and will NOT act as reference anymore, moving polys on one will not move polys on the other anymore.

3. Freeze Transforms should fix all your faces.

Please let me know if this solution works for you.

=:p

[bthatcher]

I not committed enough to this model that I cant easily start over. Why am I getting the flipped normals? Having mirrored instanced update is a common workflow. It may have started with the most recent update, BTW i'm using 2015lt. Thoughts? And thanks again for your time!

[paulkind]

Hey sorry for the late reply,

Yea, insanced mirror is a nice feature and is why I also like to work with the duplicate special tool (i just live with the issue and fix it when needed with freeze transforms).  There is a "Mirror Geometry" tool which also works but does not have a "instance" option.  THis is why I personally preffer using  duplicate special.  It would be nice if the two tools were merged somehow so we have the options of both in one tool. As you said, mirror geometry with instance is a common workflow. 

I know there is another way of achieving the same goals, but like you and very used to the mirror / instancing as you have more flexibility that way.  THe other i believe involves mirroring and using a mirror option so changes affect both sides of the object.  I was traveling and still am not near a computer I can test with but will give you that workflow when I get 5 minutes to figure it out.  Its pretty straight forward I believe and achieves the same (maybe better) results. 

I do have to say, having both the tools in one (like in 3ds max and others) would be easier to work with.  I guess for novices its easier to find "mirror" and know what it will do.  Duplicate special, though easy for a seasoned veteran to understand, may not make the most sense to the beginner/novice.  Still though maybe you and I should put in a request for a mirror option to be added to duplicate special that does not invert normals.  I dont see why mirror geometry would have to change/be removed even if it the feature was added to dulpicate special.  It would still be "special". 😃

[bthatcher]

I actually just started using Maya, and I want to say I didn't have this problem in 2014. I think it's definitely a bug, having the normals pointing inward on 'mirrored' geometry has no purpose. I submitted a support request. And sometimes as I use the model for a while, it fixes it's self. Thanks again. 

[paulkind]

Interesting.  I actually questioned myself on this.  I too was using the 2014 MayaLT when making my video and didnt have the problem occurr.  This is why I used -1 in scale to get my desired results.  One of the users on my page actually had explained to me that by using -1 in the scale it would invert the  whole structure (polys and all) which made sense to me and that I should use the mirror tool.  When I tested it in 2015 i found he was right and thought I was wrong.  Hrm, Maybe you are right in that it may be a bug, Ill do some poking around and see what I find.  Also, yes.  I have noticed if you simply nudge an object it may fix for the time being but reloading the project will leave it black/unshaded again.  Sadly nothing seems to permanantly fix it except the steps above.  Unfortunately that removes the instance and changes are unique to each object again.

[bthatcher]

Support ticket response, toggling the Two Sided Lighting has some effect, but does not fit it. 

"From looking at your file, the Normal's are not actually flipped from what I can see. If you go to Display > Polygons > Face Normals you will see they are all facing out.

Now, the reason that sometimes the section can appear black (happens with negative scale) is due to the way Viewport 2.0 displays this. 

Two things you may need to do would be to turn on/off Two Sided Lighting in the Panels > Lighting options.

The other is to run the Modify > Freeze Transform.

So if you confirm that the Normals are facing all the same direction and you are getting this black surface, do a Freeze Transform and then check the Two Sided Lighting."

[paulkind]

Though freezing transforms may fix the issue, it would destroy the instance.  The whole point in it is to keep a instance.

I will test the 2 sided lighting fix when I finish my normal mapping on my current model.

[Anonymous]

Looks like this is a bug with Viewport 2.0. I ran into it at work too. The fix for me is to enable two sided lighting. As a character modeler, I need to work with instances that update in real-time as I work on the model, so simply relying on the mirror feature is a non-starter for me. A little annoying to have an extra step, but seems to fix the problem.