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I want to maintain state, have loops, how are these done in MCG?

Anonymous

I want to maintain state, have loops, how are these done in MCG?

Anonymous
Not applicable

 

I'e been coding for 20 years, but MCG has me stumped, and I'm finding the documentation doesn't appear to cater to C++/C#/Java types and many nodes don't have examples or are named very strangely, making it hard to find a node that does what I want.

 

 

Here is how my brain works, in a C like language:

 

Declare some stuff to hold onto: "variables" / state.

 

Loop some number of times while applying function arguments/parameters to current state to generate new data.

 

"loop doing work"  in MCG seems to be tied up in making arrays, but I have so many other things I want to input besides one or two types. For example.

 

I want a point 'P' to be initialized with the location of a node.

I want 'V' a vector3 to be initialized to some parameter.

A is a constant parameter.

 

Loop 15 times doing the following:  P = P + V   AND V = V + A

 

Each time in the loop, I append P to an array.

 

So, for this case, I suppose I can make an array of V first, then shove that into something that takes that array, and does the addition to P, and it generates a array of P's. 

 

However, this next bit is where I get stuck.

 

I want P+V to be a ray, and that does a hit check against a mesh. If it collides, it 'bounces'. So now  there is a conditional( which can change both P and V), and the two values are interconnected and can no longer be separate arrays. I need to maintain P and V as 'state', but this node stuff doesn't make that easy to do.  

 

The whole idea is to have a simple particle system that 'traces' the particles as they go. I just set a starting point, iterations, and direction and this geometry tool would spit out a path (a ribbon made of quads). 

Eventually I want to be able to do that some 'n' number of times and get particle traces for a set of particles, who's start is along a spline defined by the user.

 

I can use python or write a C++/C# plugin for this of course, and it would be super simple, but I'd like to be able to learn how MCG would handle this.

 

 

in C++/C# psuedo code:

 

List<Vector3> PathOfParticle(Vector3 startPosition, Vector3 initialVelocity, Vector3 acceleration, TriMesh mesh, unsigned int iterations)

{

 

Vector3 position = startPosition;

Vector3 velocity = initialVelocity;

 

List<Vector3> pointStorage;

 

unsigned int i;

for(i=0;i<iterations;i++)

{

   v = v+ acceleration; // apply 'gravity', etc

   Ray r(p,v);

   Vector3 hitPoint;

   Vector3 hitNormal;

   bool hit =mesh.RayIntersect(r, hitPoint, hitNormal);

   if (hit)

   { 

      p = hitPoint;  // move to intersect point.

      v = Reflect(v, hitNormal);  // bounce perfectly from normal

      v *= 0.9;  // lose some energy

   }

    p = p + v; // update position from velocity.

    pointStorage.append(p);   // store position this 'tick'. 

}

 

 return pointStorage;

}

 

 

This is also compromising on iterations, as what I really want is to keep the particle moving until it moves out of the bounding box for example, or hits a triangle of a certain color, or any other reason.

 

in MCG however, If, While, Repeat, don't operate like C#/C++.

 

What would be helpful is if I can learn to 'write' MCG as perhaps a C#/C++ program so I can map the concepts in my old befuddled brain. It appears there are no variables, no state, only function arguments (which are immutable)?

 

so in kinda C++ I'm guessing:

 

<template T>

typedef (void)(*)RepeatFuncPtr(int, T);           // not even sure if this is correct!

T Repeat(T init, int n, RepeatFuncPtr* ptr)

{

     int i;

     T val = init;

     for(i=0;i<n;i++)

     {

         val = RepeatFuncPtr(n, val);

     }

     return val;
}

 

 

Of course any function I then make has to be made up of only other functions, returns only one 'item', and has read only arguments.

 

Is this anywhere close? Any resources to help make this transition?

 

 

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Ok, gonna end up answering this myself as I got some help from a friend of mine.

 

 

So, for C#/C++/Java coders out there:

 

No state or variables exist, imagine everything must be passed in as arguments.

No pointers, no references.

Pass by value.

Effectively arguments/parameters are immutable, const or final.

 

A tuple is a type than can hold other types, sort of like a struct or class with only data in it. The most a tuple can have is 3 items, but tuples can hold tuples. 

 

Only one item is returned from a function/node. However, this can be an array or a tuple object.

 

MCG Nodes that take functions an iterate on them have internal loops or recursion to complete the task. Many of these iterate over arrays automatically. Array count or index is rarely available to the 'work' function for the node. (MapWithIndex does it, and it's a compound that uses Combine, so this is not a native ability)

 

Pro-tip, copy the text from the 'help' window in the lower corner, and "Paste as HTML" into a text editor, then remove the style="" attributes, throw a html/body tag around the whole thing and save to disk.  Its much easier to search and navigate using a webbrowser. Everything is anchored, so the table of contents still works.

 

 

So to handle my position and velocity together, I made a tuple. (an Array2 would have also worked as they are both Vector3). This tuple ends up being an argument to a function that iterates on an array. The input array is the vertices of a spline, so I get my 'start position' passed in as the initial value.  Inside the function chain(I use Groups for functions and other concepts in my graph), I pick apart the tuple with 'pair1, pair2', and each one follows the velocity or position path, only to be recombined into a tuple at the end, so it can be thrown back at itself for the next run.

 

 

I was able to make a SimpleQuadMesh that traced a simple newtonian particle path out, and now I'm trying to figure out how to do ray intersections.

 

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Some results:

undefined

 

Important thing to get this working was to get all points into world space first, but use the inverse to get back to object space (this is a modifer after all).  Once I did this, collisions happened correctly and the geo lined up.

 

 

Tip: Spline vertices can be read using Modifier:Trimesh. Though I doubt they have anything but position valid, though that's all I needed.

 

Debugging is bit of a pain, using 'print' is annoying since it has to be inline with other data. It would be great to have a single step mode and a data inspector for each node that is separate.  When i used print for arrays, the output scrolling on the listener window really slowed down max. The errors it gives are by node number, but not which compound! It's also hard to find 'node 54' amidst my current complex graph when it throws an error.

 

I can get the MCG to 'do nothing', where the prints don't even fire off, and no geo is generated, even though the validate and evaluate report no errors. I don't have early out cases yet, so I'm not sure how it gets into this state.

 

Ray intersection tests are infinite rays, not a line segment, the length of 'direction' is irrelevant.  So to get a hit location, this formula works:  hitPos = normalize(direction) * hitDistance + rayPosition.

 

I've attached the progress so far. (maxtool/ms/txt)

 

Array:Map is the primary workhorse for most operations.

 

The outer loop is a Map function that converts input spline positions to an array of trimeshes.

 

This array is then combined and a final mesh is spat out on the modifier output.

 

GenerateN is my primary loop that ticks the particle and lays down positions.

 

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable

This looks really interesting !!!

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Anonymous
Not applicable

howdy,

 

have you any chance to make further progress with this ? I swear I log in everyday looking for any update on this post coz I think it's fantastic...I'm trying very hard to understand your graph but making very slow progress...

 

Vu.

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Steve_Curley
Mentor
Mentor
Subscribing to the thread would be easier (automatic email when there's a new reply) 😉

Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

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Anonymous
Not applicable

haha thanks Steve...but I'm old fashioned and I believe in real 'effort' rather than everything being 'automated' these days...

yeah yeah you can call me an old fart, a fossil...but I don't subscribe to the subscribe theory, I even made a video about it...:)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y_jso_EPbk

 

Cheers.

Vu.

 

ps: done with Max + MassFX

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Anonymous
Not applicable

I did this as my primary learning case for MCG. It won't be developed further. I didn't know you were looking for updates.

 

What in particular would you like to know about?

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Everything :)....

 

no seriously, it's different to all the other mcgs out there, including mine. But I need to get a grip on 'dynamics', 'sims', 'collisions'.

 

Stuff like DeltaPosSquared, dot/cross product, yeah you eat these for breakfast but me I looked at it and it's like a primitive tribesman seeing a rocketman for the first time...

 

Anyway, I'm goping thru your graph slowly everyday...absorbing it bit by bit

 

The ox is slow but the earth is patient...

 

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable

one thing at a time then.

 

DeltaPosSquared =   x > y  = x^2 > y ^2    

since this holds true, we can compare squared distances, instead of going through the whole square root process. It's a math shortcut.

 

Since a dot product of (start - end) gives me the 'squared length', I can use that for a distance check, as long as I compared the squared distance.

 

 

So you really need to know algerbra, but some linear geometry, and trigonometry,  otherwise lots of this stuff won't make any sense.

 

You seem to know about offseting objects (like your blinds), so instead of  myZ = myIndex * 5meters, a simulation is iterative.

instead of a single equation to get to a final position, it must iterate.  myZ = myZ + deltaZ.  This means the 'old' value is rolled into the new position with a delta applied to it. In my case, it's the force of gravity.

 

Before I blindly move the virtual particle however, I check for a collision against the 'ground'. and if found, it bounces. 

A bounce is a loss of energy and usually a reflection across the surface normal. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Thanks very much, I have more clues to digest now...if I look at one tiny section with a couple of ops, sure it's not too hard, you know what each op does...like you see a gear, a lever inside a clock...individually, they're simple.

 

It's when I look at the whole clock made up of a hundred different gears, levers of all sorts and sizes ticking like mad,

that's when it becomes bewildering. But anyway, it's good now that I have more materials to go on with...

 

Trying to sink in the tuple concept. Is the crucial thing in your graph that at any time, you must know the pos + velocity (ie. a tuple)

of the object ?

 

Thanks again.

Vu.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Correct, tuples hold packets of data together so it can flow down the graph.

 

This is because most nodes only operate on 'one' piece of data, and the tuple counts as one. This is why there nodes that set and get bits of data from tuples.

 

 

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We use Wunderkind to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Wunderkind. Ads are based on both Wunderkind data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Wunderkind has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Wunderkind to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Wunderkind Privacy Policy
ADC Media
We use ADC Media to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by ADC Media. Ads are based on both ADC Media data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that ADC Media has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to ADC Media to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. ADC Media Privacy Policy
AgrantSEM
We use AgrantSEM to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by AgrantSEM. Ads are based on both AgrantSEM data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that AgrantSEM has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to AgrantSEM to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. AgrantSEM Privacy Policy
Bidtellect
We use Bidtellect to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Bidtellect. Ads are based on both Bidtellect data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Bidtellect has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Bidtellect to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Bidtellect Privacy Policy
Bing
We use Bing to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Bing. Ads are based on both Bing data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Bing has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Bing to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Bing Privacy Policy
G2Crowd
We use G2Crowd to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by G2Crowd. Ads are based on both G2Crowd data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that G2Crowd has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to G2Crowd to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. G2Crowd Privacy Policy
NMPI Display
We use NMPI Display to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by NMPI Display. Ads are based on both NMPI Display data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that NMPI Display has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to NMPI Display to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. NMPI Display Privacy Policy
VK
We use VK to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by VK. Ads are based on both VK data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that VK has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to VK to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. VK Privacy Policy
Adobe Target
We use Adobe Target to test new features on our sites and customize your experience of these features. To do this, we collect behavioral data while you’re on our sites. This data may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, your IP address or device ID, your Autodesk ID, and others. You may experience a different version of our sites based on feature testing, or view personalized content based on your visitor attributes. Adobe Target Privacy Policy
Google Analytics (Advertising)
We use Google Analytics (Advertising) to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Google Analytics (Advertising). Ads are based on both Google Analytics (Advertising) data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Google Analytics (Advertising) has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Google Analytics (Advertising) to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Google Analytics (Advertising) Privacy Policy
Trendkite
We use Trendkite to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Trendkite. Ads are based on both Trendkite data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Trendkite has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Trendkite to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Trendkite Privacy Policy
Hotjar
We use Hotjar to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Hotjar. Ads are based on both Hotjar data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Hotjar has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Hotjar to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Hotjar Privacy Policy
6 Sense
We use 6 Sense to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by 6 Sense. Ads are based on both 6 Sense data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that 6 Sense has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to 6 Sense to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. 6 Sense Privacy Policy
Terminus
We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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