Reference Parts and Shaded Drawing Views

[mthomas]

Reference parts and shaded drawings views do not play nice together. 

#1 Why can I not shade reference parts in a drawing view? There should be four Line Style options: As Reference Parts, As Parts (Non-Shaded), As Parts, and Off. With As Parts it will use the style of the view... i.e. if the view is shaded then the parts are shaded, if the view isn't shaded then the parts are not shaded.

#2 When the view is shaded but the reference parts are not, the reference parts "bleed through" the shading and do not show proper hidden line / line removal. This makes interpreting the view very difficult. 

In the first image, with no reference parts, the views look good. However, notice in the second image where you cannot tell that the Valve component goes through a hole. It seems to be floating on top of the assembly.

[dvsmiller9]

In Inventor 2015 Reference parts in all shaded views (orthogonal and isometric) show as wireframe (with hidden lines removed) when Drawing View Model State tab Reference Data Line Style is set to ’Parts’, but they do not shade.  We should have another option either in this control group or elsewhere on that tab that allows Reference Parts to show as shaded just like ’Normal’ parts, regardless of the type of view it is.  If the view allows shading, Reference Parts should have the option to show as shaded in those views.

Similar idea posted here but not fully what I would like/need: http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideastation/reference-part-bom-viewed-in-full-colour/idc-p/52...

tmoney2007 stated there:

You can set part to "Phantom" and they will show up in full color, but not on the BOM. The only catch is that if it is an assembly, all the children have to be Phantom as well or THEY will show up on the BOM.

I replied:

This is why we derive the assembly first to an IPT and set the resulting IPT to Phantom.  If reference parts could be displayed as shaded then we would use 'Reference' much more often and avoid the extra derivation step with the extra file to manage.

[mthomas]

smoyse posted as well "Phantom isn't the correct approach here. Reference removes the component from all Physical calculations as well. Phantom does not. So from an engineering stand point, Phantom could be quite dangerous"

[mthomas]

The other "catch" to using Phantom is not only do the children appear in the Inventor BOM but in the Vault Item BOM as well

[dvsmiller9]

@mthomas: The other "catch" to using Phantom is not only do the children appear in the Inventor BOM but in the Vault Item BOM as well 

Which is why we derive the subassembly we want to hide and make that derived part Phantom.  So far we have not had to take the physical calculations into account but I know there will be a point where we'll want to get the top level assembly mass.

[Dickerson2012]

FYI Reference data can be hidden using the "all bodies" option

[drfleau]

Reference parts are supposed to be shown differently from the rest, as they are used as "place markers" for other parts and assemblies. Reference parts must not attract the eye on the same level as the main parts or assemblies, otherwise they would be regular parts. The whole idea of having reference parts is to highlight how the main parts interact with it, or are positioned near it, but without being the center of attention. Make good use of different views, cut views, detail views, broken views, etc. to show whatever aspect you need to show, not just an isometric view.

What you are asking is similar to a customer in a restaurant asking for a soup, but you don't want it to be wet, and could they please serve it in a basket. It does not make sense.

[mikeh4]

I agree the views for REF parts don't jive with the way the REF parts are set in the view edit dialog box.

When the REF parts are set to "As Parts" it should act like a part visually, hidden lines, shaded, trimming of lines.....

When the REF parts are set to "As REF Parts" it should act like a REF part and show up as dashed lines and not shaded (phantom like if you will).  The hidden edges and intersecting of edges should still show correctly so the parts don't appear to be floating in space like image 2 of the original post.

We use REF a lot to show options on a trailer.  We will pull the trailer into the optional kit as REF so we can show where and how the optoin is installed.  But at the same time we need to be able to show the view with REF parts as REF for locating the option, but also for marketing and manuals we need the REF parts to look like real parts when we want an image of a completely loaded trailer with all the options, we don't want them to look REF.

Thanks!

[livewire77]

Same thing with referenced parts hatching in the drawing. Simply not posible 😞 

[mthomas]

Dickerson2012,

That's part of the problem... "all bodies" is turned on for all four views in my example. The reference parts still don't hide the shaded parts properly

Mike

[Calavetta123]

I feel there should be a check option where you can allow reference parts be shaded in your .idw view but also have the option to not check and keep all reference parts un-shaded.

[Kent.in.Ontario]

Agreed being able to show referenced parts/geometry in an isometric view is sometimes needed. i.e. showing a 'person' at controls of a machine or next to an assembly for a scale of reference. It just isn't helpful to have to change that reference 'person' to Phantom it throws the whole job off. 

My 2cents anyway....

[avhsalesengineer]

There might be a solution / workaround for this problem, which works for our sales configurator. (All credits go to a colleague of me who found out.)

When using the BOM structure ‘Phantom’ instead of ‘Reference’, the file shows up full colour, but does not appear in the BOM.

You have to change all BOM structures throughout the intire model either to ‘Normal’ or to ‘Phantom’ to let this work.

The only disavantage is that you can't have visible items which sometimes have, and sometime have no part number. (and therefor you can't switch between default and reference BOM structure without synchronising it with the visibility of the part/assembly. This can be done with iLogic).

[mthomas]

Thanks, and we have done this with parts, but this doesn't help with assemblies. If we set the assemblies to Phantom then the components are promoted in the BOM.

[avhsalesengineer]

It works for assemblies as well, at least for our sales configurator. If you set an assembly to phantom, just set all the parts in the assembly also to phantom. As I said, it is a workaround with limits, but for me it works good enough. I only have to visualise production lines and create one BOM at the top level assembly, but in this way I can show it full colour on the Inventor .dwg.

(This idea to make reference parts fully visible one way or another is still very valid, of course.)

[Giordanik]

I have run into OP's problem numerous times. My latest situation is an elbow in a part-by-part tube weldment. The assembly makes a 90° net change in direction, but steps in the middle by 21°/61°. If an elbow is cut at 21°, then the other half can be used to complete the turn in 90° (there's reasons for not doing a straight-up 90° elbow). To accomplish this, I need to insert two of the exact same models with the exact same BOM info, use Assembly Extrusions to trim elbow material, but I only want one to make the BOM. So I use Reference and the part looks like it's made of glass, not stainless, on the drawing. In this situation, I would like a Phantom option in the assembly BOM structure because I could then see it there in my drawing, shaded, without it affecting my BOM. Heck, I would like a Slice Component option in Assembly.

I have appreciated Reference, Phantom, and Purchased BOM structures. They are wonderful, happy creatures in their natural environments.

[phlyx]

Glad to find this thread in the Forums as it falls right in to our issue with this and probably not the only ones.  Our issue with the reference parts not showing as shaded in assemblies is that we use shaded views of our assembly drawing views and exploded shaded drawing views in all our documentation.  Many parts on our machines are declared as reference simply because they were either provided by the customer or ordered some other way than thru the mechanical BOM.  

Regardless of the reason something is reference, it is still a part of the assembly.  By forcing reference parts to wireframes we no longer can make shaded views to include in our operator manual, maintenance manual or HMI images for the operator screen.  We have to create a whole new bogus top level assembly with bogus sub-assemblies with no items called out as reference just to make these drawing view images.  By not having a way to show reference parts properly in shaded view, it forces us to spend many hours creating reference assemblies which also are no longer linked to the "real" main assembly so changes do not happen automatically.

Would really appreciate a work around or a "fix" to this glaring shortcoming.

[Kent.in.Ontario]

Thanks for supporting! Needs a lot more support to come under review I would expect....

[Kent.in.Ontario]

Ran across this yet again today.. 

Used Frame Generator to produce 'existing structure' for an install. And now I cannot remove the weight from the assembly without changing to reference and losing the needed shading! 

Very frustrating!!

Wound up using a work around that isn't good as I had to remove the 2400 lbs of existing structure from the total weight of 3800 lbs and edit the weight into the titleblock instead of using the automatically updating formula...ARRRRGGHHHH... 

This one was painful!

[gregory_nickol]

This would be a great change for the way we work in my company. If something is on the Bill of Materials, it's supposed to be purchased to build our equipment. We deal with chemical tanks as a large part of this, and so the floor needs to have pits/trenches/curbs to contain potential leaks. As such, we model the profile of the floor (and also frequently building columns) to show our equipment. I'm not going to tell my purchasing guy he needs to go buy a floor, so I could set the part to reference, but then it just looks awful on the shaded views; I could set the part to phantom and fix the view, but then when I go to check out the weight of the assembly for shipping purposes, I have to subtract out the weight of this concrete floor. This is just one very specific example how we would use a better reference option, I don't have the time to type out all of the many areas where we would prefer a component to be both reference and shaded.

[Kent.in.Ontario]

​I have to say I totally understand. We build platforms to fit into notches
and on concrete walls etc not to mention up to machinery that needs to show
shaded in the isometric and GA views for everyone including an outside
engineer.
The list goes on and on and .....yeah...its long, very very long!​