Inventor General Discussion

Inventor General Discussion

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gsmith9810
Posts: 115
Registered: ‎12-28-2012
Message 11 of 20 (271 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-24-2014 01:21 PM in reply to: JDMather

Unfortunately, I suspect that money is at the root of your question.

 

If there was money to be made by ADSK (above and beyond their current educational offerings) they'd certainly jump on it.

 

If there was money to be made in designing a CAD-based "higher-education" curriculum JD, I suspect that you'd be there instead of where you are?

 

Part of the "opportunity" would seem to me to be that a majority of educators (likely) are of an age where their own engineering skills were learned without a basis in CAD and let's remember that CAD was (for the most part) all about drafting. Its only been recently that CAD companies have grafted the more complex analysis onto their drafting/modeling systems. The stand-alone (after-market) tools that were previously used in conjunction with a modeling system only really came into their own following the more wide-spread use of CAD tools. To a degree this was driven by ADSK (from the bottom) and CATIA (from the top) driving products like ProEngineer and it's offspring (Solid Edge, SolidWorks and Inventor).

 

High-end analysis was the realm of aerospace and automotive design.

 

Now, high-powered tools are embedded within lots of systems but the average guy doing typical reconfiguration-design doesn't typically need to determine the stress loads on a fastener when every other fastener used by his design team is a 1/4-20 SHCS. Lots of design shops rely on their vendors for sizing product. The vendor will err on the side of over-kill (just to be safe).

 

Just some thoughts...

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blair
Posts: 4,194
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 12 of 20 (266 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-24-2014 01:28 PM in reply to: graemev
To your second part about Apple and the schools, this is really what Autodesk and SW have done with their school/student license policy of free use with the 1-year license. Try and get it in the schools and have the students learn on their software in hopes that they will have some influence on the type of software is purchased corporately.
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JDMather
Posts: 27,056
Registered: ‎04-20-2006
Message 13 of 20 (204 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-29-2014 04:56 PM in reply to: blair

blair wrote:
.... The complexity of items around us now require specialists in each small area and aspect of design and manufacturing. The same can be said of Inventor.

Which is why there should be an Autodesk School of Digital Prototyping.  Educators would get a rigorous introduction to all of Inventor and related Autodesk products.  Then they would go back to their home schools and specialize in certain areas of digital prototyping - just like they do now with classical engineering curriculums.  There are certain areas where I specialize now, while my colleages in our program specialize in other areas, but we closely work together because we all have more than a casual knowledge of the tools.

 

I had someone from Autodesk Education comment to me that Inventor was a commodity (the MCAD class, SolidWorks, SolidEdge, Creo - like milk).  I agreed for a minute and then after hanging up the phone and going to teach my Dynamic Simulation class, I wished I had challenged that notion.  The basics are essentially a generic across MCAD programs, but dig a little deeper......

 

While Autodesk would naturally focus any such program they support around their products, the engineering principles, the software funtions, if not the tools - are generic.  Therefore the principles learned are transferable.  But is not trivial to learn these tools.  If I don't have time to learn all of Inventor, I certainly don't have the additional time to learn all of the functionality of another companies solutions.

 

Billy Vaughn Koen writes about, "Beware the captured expert...", but I see that statement as a business opportunity for Autodesk (or SolidWorks, or PTC...).  BTW - that is another book (engineering) educators don't like.

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JDMather
Posts: 27,056
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Message 14 of 20 (203 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-29-2014 05:07 PM in reply to: graemev

graemev wrote: 

I think this is an idea whose time has come.  I don't think it needs to be software-specific, but it couldn't hurt to at least start there.  Apple generated a lot of sales by building a user base in the schools.  .....


The principles are the same - regardless of the software used, but learning the tools are not so easy that it is a trivial endeavor.  I think one company could "own" the future of digital prototyping.

 

I think the Autodesk Fusion 360 development recognizes the Apple in schools influence. I noticed several years back that attending AU classes - Carl Bass would always make an appearance at Fusion classes.  Now look at the names of the deskers involved in Fusion 360.  All the Inventor brainpower has moved to Fusion.  But wherever it is going - Fusion 360 is a long long way from replacing Inventor in my opinion.

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JDMather
Posts: 27,056
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Message 15 of 20 (200 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-29-2014 05:24 PM in reply to: gsmith9810

gsmith9810 wrote:

Unfortunately, I suspect that money is at the root of your question.

 

If there was money to be made by ADSK (above and beyond their current educational offerings) they'd certainly jump on it.

 

If there was money to be made in designing a CAD-based "higher-education" curriculum JD, I suspect that you'd be there instead of where you are?

 

 ..but the average guy doing typical reconfiguration-design doesn't typically need


And money should be the root, the foundation of digital prototyping.

 

By, "I suspect that you'd be there instead of where you are", I would have to take that to mean "School" the institution, not me personally.  The future of Digital Prototyping is a much bigger issue for everyone in this field (and indeed, for everyone) than my puny influence. Life circumstances, a 35k annual net income, and Polar Vortex parked over PA have combined to make my biggest concern how to pay my current heating bill.  Al Gore may be the inventor of the Global Warming that will take care of my heating bill sometime in future years, but Autodesk owns the Algor and Inventor that pays my bills for now.  My comfort, now and future is vested on Autodesk success in attracting students into this field with awesome design products.

 

Because Autodesk is a publicly traded company, without the founder(s) at the helm, I think my vision would require someone with the same vision but also very deep pockets to make it happen.  Unfortunately I suspect that there is no short-term return on investment to compel ADSK or any other company to jump on it.  But I see what visionary individuals at IDEO and several other companies are investing in .....

 

Well enough of this for now - getting late and I don't have my SolidWorks sheet metal lecture ready for the morning...  ...time to get back to the paying job.

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mpatchus
Posts: 477
Registered: ‎10-22-2008
Message 16 of 20 (151 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-30-2014 09:10 AM in reply to: JDMather

When I was teaching, one of my greatest frustrations actually perpetuated what JD is talking about.

I had enough time built into the curriculum to cover topics briefly, but never enough time to cover them sufficiently.

My students would get only a glimpse of what Inventor could do, but not enough time to actually put the tools into use.

Maybe at a secondary school it may have been different, but at the high school level, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is geared towards simply passing the government required standardized tests.

Anything that is beyond what is covered on the stardard test is considered unecessary.

I actually got reprimanded during one of my observations for having my students conduct a critical thinking exercise, because it was not deemed part of the required learning.  It was one of the things that drove me out of education.

 

Of course it hasn't gotten much better in industry.  I see so much reluctance to learn new technology and workflows, when just "doing what we've always done" is considered a sound business practice.  It echoes the days when we were transitioning to CAD from the drafting board.  The same reluctance to change is still out there, surprisingly even from the folks who have gone through it before.

 

Sorry for the rant... 

Mike Patchus

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dgorsman
Posts: 5,416
Registered: ‎10-12-2006
Message 17 of 20 (136 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-30-2014 10:57 AM in reply to: mpatchus

Reluctance to change can be well founded.  I've been through several changes and others who have been around longer have seen even more.  We remember when things don't turn out as good as promised, and the chaos when things *really* went wrong.  Change always comes with a cost and it can be too high.

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blair
Posts: 4,194
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 18 of 20 (120 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-30-2014 11:42 AM in reply to: dgorsman
Hannibal burnt the bridges behind his army so they could only go forward. You can say that reluctance to change has been around for a long time. A double tap to the back of the head works just as good today as it did 60 years ago.
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graemev
Posts: 302
Registered: ‎11-03-2011
Message 19 of 20 (111 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-30-2014 12:11 PM in reply to: mpatchus

mpatchus wrote:

 

I actually got reprimanded during one of my observations for having my students conduct a critical thinking exercise, because it was not deemed part of the required learning.


That sort of thing piddles me off to no end.  Students finally get to a point where critical thinking skills can be absorbed and applied and then Administration deems those skills to be unimportant and/or not related to education.  Critical thinking skills are some of the few skills that transfer to almost every aspect of one's life, both personal and professional.  Critical thinking, brain-storming, and other non-subject-specific skills should be a course unto themselves and be compulsory for at least one grade of high school.

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dgorsman
Posts: 5,416
Registered: ‎10-12-2006
Message 20 of 20 (93 Views)

Re: Why isn't there a real Autodesk University?

01-30-2014 02:39 PM in reply to: graemev

Agreed.  Making a case/evangelizing these days amounts to little more than "You're stupid because my idea is better!", along with a mindset of total victory or nothing.

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If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
Adopt. Adapt. Overcome. Or be overcome.
A good question will be halfway to a good answer.


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