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what is that trick for making the holes come out right in the FP

11 REPLIES 11
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Message 1 of 12
Anonymous
216 Views, 11 Replies

what is that trick for making the holes come out right in the FP

I have a bended slightly conical 24 sided sheetmetal structure, or I will
have when I learn how to make it using Inventor and Larry's help. There will
be a tube passing through the structure at an angle from the horizontal
direction. So there should be an angled through hole with something like an
elliptical shape.

Larry said, the holes wont come out right in the flat pattern of the
structure. So what's the trick for making the holes come out right in flat
pattern??

Regards

John Mayfair
11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

John:

I have a longwinded technique that I have used for solving this type of
problem and I might tackle it over the weekend.

Could you give me a bit of a verbal description of what you are trying
to achieve?

For example, for the 'slightly conical ... structure' what would be the:
1/ Height
2/ Width across flats at the base
3/ Width across flats at the tip
4/ Thickness
5/ Centreline orientation (along X axis or Y or Z)

For the hole, assuming it was formed by an extrusion removing material:
6/ Describe shape and size
7/ Describe intersection with the centreline of the 'Cone'.


Richard
Message 3 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hey Richard,
This long-winded technique you mentioned, will it accommodate a hole, not
tangent to a face, extruded from an angled workplane on the central axis of
the conical shape and/or a workplane tangent to one of the bends then
produce a proper looking hole in the flat pattern? I'd be interested in
knowing that technique as well. Thanks!
~Larry


"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
news:3DC277D2.E0D6C32A@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> John:
>
> I have a longwinded technique that I have used for solving this type of
> problem and I might tackle it over the weekend.
>
> Could you give me a bit of a verbal description of what you are trying
> to achieve?
>
> For example, for the 'slightly conical ... structure' what would be the:
> 1/ Height
> 2/ Width across flats at the base
> 3/ Width across flats at the tip
> 4/ Thickness
> 5/ Centreline orientation (along X axis or Y or Z)
>
> For the hole, assuming it was formed by an extrusion removing material:
> 6/ Describe shape and size
> 7/ Describe intersection with the centreline of the 'Cone'.
>
>
> Richard
Message 4 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Richard,
I will send you a dwg file with the necessary explanations by e-mail in a
few hours time. I will be glad if you can help me.

I also want to learn the technique, if it helps solving my problem if
possible.

Best Regards
John
Message 5 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Larry:

Short answer - probably.

I have successfully flat patterned the intersection of a small
sheet-metal pipe into a larger sheet metal pipe. The large pipe had the
hole cut into it and the small pipe had the end developed.

If viewed normal to the centreline of each pipe, they intersected at an
angle. The two centrelines, however, did not meet.

It isn't pretty, it isn't adaptive, but it works.

Richard
Message 6 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

OK, I will send the file by e-mail.

John
Message 7 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Developed? Don't think I understand the term "developed" properly; could you
elaborate a bit? Sounds like we're talking two pipes as opposed to three but
if it will work on one side, it should work on the other with the
centerlines of the two opposing holes tangent or not, I'd guess.
~Larry


"Richard Hinterhoeller" wrote in message
news:3DC28769.ADA744CB@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> Larry:
>
> Short answer - probably.
>
> I have successfully flat patterned the intersection of a small
> sheet-metal pipe into a larger sheet metal pipe. The large pipe had the
> hole cut into it and the small pipe had the end developed.
>
> If viewed normal to the centreline of each pipe, they intersected at an
> angle. The two centrelines, however, did not meet.
>
> It isn't pretty, it isn't adaptive, but it works.
>
> Richard
Message 8 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

What I meant by developed is that pipe end is curved so that you have a
tight fit where it meets the larger pipe.

Richard
Message 9 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

John:

In CF, look for a new posting "Flat Cone". In order to look into
cutting holes for the cross pipes, I had to create a shape that would
flat pattern. I did this in 3 steps:

1/ Created a part "Flat Cone Corner" where one corner of the 'Cone' is
created. This corner starts at the mid-plane of one flat and ends at
the mid-plane of an adjacent flat. Using a bit of ugly trignometry I
used the Fold command.
2/ In the assembly "Flat Cone Intermediate", the corners were arrayed
(oops, circular patterned, the IV developers couldn't re-use the more
concise ACAD term because it might seem to close to their sister
product) to make a complete shape.
3/ In the part "Flat Cone Complete", the assembly is derived into one
solid. After removing a thin slice out of one face, you get a nice flat
pattern.

The solution is a bit of a kluge, but it works. Unfortunately, that's
all I found time for.

Richard

John Mayfair wrote:
> Richard,
> I will send you a dwg file with the necessary explanations by e-mail in a
> few hours time. I will be glad if you can help me.
>
> I also want to learn the technique, if it helps solving my problem if
> possible.
>
> Best Regards
> John
>
>
Message 10 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

John:

If the link to the spreadsheet was functioning properly as I expect it
will with SP1, the number of steps required for you as an operator could
be reduced.

Richard
Message 11 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Larry:

Spent the weekend installing IV6 and messing around with with my
network. I finally got the network up to the point where I could
download your 'SM Folded Cone Passthrough.ipt'.

Very nice. What was I thinking with all those equations when adding
faces automatically invokes the 'Bend' command. Learn something new
every day.

So I blended your solution with mine and thought you might like the
concept. The general outline is:

1/ Use the steps you took to create the first face, however, only create
half of the trapezoid.
2/ Create the second face, and again create only the trapezoid. You now
have 1/24th of the 'Cone'. Obvously the two half-trapezoids have to be
adjacent.
3/ In an assembly, array 24 instances of the cone about the central axis.
4/ In a new part, derive the assembly.
5/ Extrude a narrow slot in one face.
6/ Cut all of the holes.
7/ Flat pattern.

The advantages are that it saves creating 22 workplanes and sketches,
and once the link between IV6 and Excel gets patched, a spreadsheet
could be used to drive the whole shebang.

Richard
Message 12 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

That would work as well. I thought about making a pattern and deriving it
but thought it would better demonstrate, to John, how it would be done as a
regular part since he's new to Inventor. Funny thing, though, there doesn't
seem to be enough material to support the through holes being at the
specified angles/heights. I adjusted the angle of all the holes to keep the
small holes on the pattern but the big holes cut through the edge of the
material and couldn't be rotated enough to stay on the flat pattern. Still
don't know what the reason is but I figure the angles have to be called out
wrong or the small end is too small. Who knows?

Interesting cliché, that: I always assumed that everything I learned was
new.
~Larry

"Richard Hintehoeller" wrote in message
news:3DC7C411.9020903@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> Larry:
>
> Spent the weekend installing IV6 and messing around with with my
> network. I finally got the network up to the point where I could
> download your 'SM Folded Cone Passthrough.ipt'.
>
> Very nice. What was I thinking with all those equations when adding
> faces automatically invokes the 'Bend' command. Learn something new
> every day.
>
> So I blended your solution with mine and thought you might like the
> concept. The general outline is:
>
> 1/ Use the steps you took to create the first face, however, only create
> half of the trapezoid.
> 2/ Create the second face, and again create only the trapezoid. You now
> have 1/24th of the 'Cone'. Obvously the two half-trapezoids have to be
> adjacent.
> 3/ In an assembly, array 24 instances of the cone about the central axis.
> 4/ In a new part, derive the assembly.
> 5/ Extrude a narrow slot in one face.
> 6/ Cut all of the holes.
> 7/ Flat pattern.
>
> The advantages are that it saves creating 22 workplanes and sketches,
> and once the link between IV6 and Excel gets patched, a spreadsheet
> could be used to drive the whole shebang.
>
> Richard
>

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