Inventor General Discussion

Inventor General Discussion

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CelticDesignServices
Posts: 514
Registered: ‎11-29-2011
Message 1 of 9 (1,829 Views)

Weldments, How do you do them?

1829 Views, 8 Replies
02-07-2013 09:05 AM

OK, it's been a while since I've been active here...continued schooling took priority.

Anyways, I thought I'd post the question of how you do your weldments in Inventor.

I've always seen n umerous ways and thought I'd get a few ideas and comments from those of you that create them.

 

The most obvious choice would be to use the Weldment features of Inventor, but I actually see very few people do such.

 

I see people who will model and dimension each weld prep feature and then draw a stetch and fill it in with hatching to respresent the welds on the drawing. To me, that's crazy, but it seems to be the norm.

 

So, I ask....how do you create your weldments and why?

 

It's good to be back.

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mpatchus
Posts: 472
Registered: ‎10-22-2008
Message 2 of 9 (1,823 Views)

Re: Weldments, How do you do them?

02-07-2013 09:21 AM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

We create our weldments as assemblies of parts, apply any treatments, apply the welds, then apply any post-weld machining.

Works fine for our shop folks, and we get very few complaints from our clients about items not fitting..

Mike Patchus

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Lance_White
Posts: 154
Registered: ‎06-13-2011
Message 3 of 9 (1,811 Views)

Re: Weldments, How do you do them?

02-07-2013 10:08 AM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

We just put the peices together and call it a day. The weld info gets put on the IDW, though I would prefer we used cosmetic welds and put that info in the model. The only time we actually "weld" stuff is if we are doing analysis of some sort on it.


Lance W.
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LT.Rusty
Posts: 772
Registered: ‎10-23-2012
Message 4 of 9 (1,795 Views)

Re: Weldments, How do you do them?

02-07-2013 10:58 AM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

I just use the Weldment tools in Inventor.  Sure, the welds look a little odd, but I have to do FEA on virtually everything I make out of steel, so for me it just makes sense to use the tools provided.

 

I can't even imagine trying to model all the stitch welds that I use by hand.  That would be a completely insane amount of work.  I know that some people do that, just so they can get the cosmetics the way that they want them, but that's a level of give-a-**** that I just can't seem to muster up.

 

Now, if I'm going to be doing something in Showcase where the welds will be incredibly obvious I might throw a fillet or two on them just to break the sharp edges down, but that's the extent of extra trouble I'm willing to take.


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mrattray
Posts: 2,501
Registered: ‎09-13-2011
Message 5 of 9 (1,786 Views)

Re: Weldments, How do you do them?

02-07-2013 11:39 AM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

Our shop here is at the extreme end of the lazy spectrum. We just show all of the parts assembled and let the welders figure it out for themselves. We don't tell them where to weld, how to weld, what prep to do, we just let them wing it. I know that sounds nuts, but that's "how we've done it for thirty years..."  It does save a lot of work on our end. In a way, it actually makes sense. I don't know jack about welding, the welders do. So, why would I tell them how to do their job?

Mike (not Matt) Rattray

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karthur1
Posts: 4,207
Registered: ‎04-27-2005
Message 6 of 9 (1,769 Views)

Re: Weldments, How do you do them?

02-07-2013 12:40 PM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

For welments, we will draw the parts and add the weld prep to each indiviual part.  Reason for that is because usually these parts are large and the weld prep needs to be done before the parts go to the fitting table.  We can show a view of the prep on each part so the fitter knows exactly what to do.

 

After the parts are drawn and put into a weldment, we use the machining feature to add the machining.

 

 

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SKinzel
Posts: 133
Registered: ‎06-12-2007
Message 7 of 9 (1,692 Views)

Re: Weldments, How do you do them?

02-08-2013 01:55 PM in reply to: CelticDesignServices

I constrain all the pieces (individual IPT files) together in a weldment assembly but do not usually put in actual welds or the prep.  I have found that the modelling of the welds doesn't always work out.  This seems to be especially true when welds are wrapping around corners and or several welds meet.  It seems that more often than not the fillet doesn't model correctly and I end up with an unintentional gap so I just leave all the welds off.  I stil call out the welds on the drawing.  I'm not overly happy with this way because then the weight of the weld isn't accounted for in the weight of the part and you can't model the prep work or your weights will be even further off.  On large fabrications the weld weight can be significant.  I'd prefer to model the welds but I can't really justify the amount of time I spend fighing the model when I do.

 

One problem I have with weldments is the weight calculation when there are machining operations done to the weldment.  There doesn't appear to be any way to get the "non-machined" weight of the part other than to disable all of the machining operations, update the mass and then note what that weight is.  As a result I usually don't do any machining operations on the individual weldments.  As an example our housings consist of an Upper Housing and a Lower Housing.  I'll do weldment IAMs of the two halves and have no machining operations.  I then insert those halves into the Housing Machining IAM where I do any and all machining operations.  This way I have good weight for the fabrication stage of the halves (except for weld weight).  To me this way makes sense because that is basiclly how it happens in real life.  This method doesn't work so well on a "one piece" welded fabrication because you would end up with two IAM files for the one part, one fabrication only and one machined.  This isn't really a deal breaker but I'd rather not have two seperate files for the one part.  For the one piece fabrication I like to have a drawing showing the part as fabricated and one drawing showing the part as machined which is easily done using the Model State setting and multiple sheets in the drawing file.  However, as I mentioned earlier there doesn't appear to be a straight forward way to capture the weight of the fabrication only stage of the part.

Stuart Kinzel
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LT.Rusty
Posts: 772
Registered: ‎10-23-2012
Message 8 of 9 (1,688 Views)

Re: Weldments, How do you do them?

02-08-2013 02:00 PM in reply to: SKinzel

SKinzel wrote:

I constrain all the pieces (individual IPT files) together in a weldment assembly but do not usually put in actual welds or the prep.  I have found that the modelling of the welds doesn't always work out.  This seems to be especially true when welds are wrapping around corners and or several welds meet.  It seems that more often than not the fillet doesn't model correctly and I end up with an unintentional gap so I just leave all the welds off.  I stil call out the welds on the drawing.  I'm not overly happy with this way because then the weight of the weld isn't accounted for in the weight of the part and you can't model the prep work or your weights will be even further off.  On large fabrications the weld weight can be significant.  I'd prefer to model the welds but I can't really justify the amount of time I spend fighing the model when I do.

 

One problem I have with weldments is the weight calculation when there are machining operations done to the weldment.  There doesn't appear to be any way to get the "non-machined" weight of the part other than to disable all of the machining operations, update the mass and then note what that weight is.  As a result I usually don't do any machining operations on the individual weldments.  As an example our housings consist of an Upper Housing and a Lower Housing.  I'll do weldment IAMs of the two halves and have no machining operations.  I then insert those halves into the Housing Machining IAM where I do any and all machining operations.  This way I have good weight for the fabrication stage of the halves (except for weld weight).  To me this way makes sense because that is basiclly how it happens in real life.  This method doesn't work so well on a "one piece" welded fabrication because you would end up with two IAM files for the one part, one fabrication only and one machined.  This isn't really a deal breaker but I'd rather not have two seperate files for the one part.  For the one piece fabrication I like to have a drawing showing the part as fabricated and one drawing showing the part as machined which is easily done using the Model State setting and multiple sheets in the drawing file.  However, as I mentioned earlier there doesn't appear to be a straight forward way to capture the weight of the fabrication only stage of the part.



 
I can't necessarily help you out with your weld issues, but the machining operations may be a different story.  At AU this year there was a class on top-down design approaches, and the instructor had a really novel use for iParts and iAssemblies.  He used iParts and iAssemblies to show the various manufacturing stages of each part.  For instance, factory member 1 showed a raw blank casting.  Member 2 showed the casting with the first machining operation complete.  Member 3 showed the next operation, etc., until the final member was the completed part.  It was a very interesting approach, and something like that might come in useful for alleviating your multiple-file issues with your machining operations?  Yeah, it still creates multiple files, but they're accessed fairly painlessly and transparently from within the same IDW or IAM ...

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karthur1
Posts: 4,207
Registered: ‎04-27-2005
Message 9 of 9 (1,684 Views)

Re: Weldments, How do you do them?

02-08-2013 02:28 PM in reply to: LT.Rusty

LT.Rusty wrote:
.....
I can't necessarily help you out with your weld issues, but the machining operations may be a different story.  At AU this year there was a class on top-down design approaches, and the instructor had a really novel use for iParts and iAssemblies.  He used iParts and iAssemblies to show the various manufacturing stages of each part. 

This seems like it would take a lot of time to setup.

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