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Weldment Assemblies w/ common subparts

17 REPLIES 17
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Message 1 of 18
rstadler
407 Views, 17 Replies

Weldment Assemblies w/ common subparts

I need to create two weldment assemblies that are mirrored. The weldments do not become right and left handed until after they are machined. Inventor won't let you mirror an assembly (why Autodesk?) so I have created two IAM files (one RH, one LH). Since the assemblies are indentical in the as-welded state, I used the same IPT files to create the RH and LH IAMs. I added the machining features to the first part with no problems (the assembly saved fine). Problems surfaced after adding the machining features to the second part. The features added OK, but when I went to save the second assembly, I got a "Persistance Error" and assembly would not save. The only way I found around this problem was to create indepenant IPT files for each weldment assembly. Seems like a terrible waste to create twice as many IPT files as needed (remember the as-welded assemblies are identical). Im I missing something here? Is my answer awaiting in the illusive and much anticipated SP1?
17 REPLIES 17
Message 2 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

I haven't tried it in the weldment environment, but you might try deriving the weldment,
and using the mirror option

--
Kent
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program


"rstadler" wrote in message news:f123557.-1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I need to create two weldment assemblies that are mirrored. The weldments do not become
right and left handed until after they are machined. Inventor won't let you mirror an
assembly (why Autodesk?) so I have created two IAM files (one RH, one LH). Since the
assemblies are indentical in the as-welded state, I used the same IPT files to create the
RH and LH IAMs. I added the machining features to the first part with no problems (the
assembly saved fine). Problems surfaced after adding the machining features to the second
part. The features added OK, but when I went to save the second assembly, I got a
"Persistance Error" and assembly would not save. The only way I found around this problem
was to create indepenant IPT files for each weldment assembly. Seems like a terrible waste
to create twice as many IPT files as needed (remember the as-welded assemblies are
identical). Im I missing something here? Is my answer awaiting in the illusive and much
anticipated SP1?
Message 3 of 18
rstadler
in reply to: rstadler

You can't derive an assembly. You can only derive parts. Rick
Message 4 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

Haven't used it yet but maybe this is a possibility
if Kent's suggestion doesn't work

 



--
Sean Dotson, PE

href="http://www.sdotson.com">http://www.sdotson.com

...sleep is for the
weak..
-----------------------------------------


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
need to create two weldment assemblies that are mirrored. The weldments do not
become right and left handed until after they are machined. Inventor won't let
you mirror an assembly (why Autodesk?) so I have created two IAM files (one
RH, one LH). Since the assemblies are indentical in the as-welded state, I
used the same IPT files to create the RH and LH IAMs. I added the machining
features to the first part with no problems (the assembly saved fine).
Problems surfaced after adding the machining features to the second part. The
features added OK, but when I went to save the second assembly, I got a
"Persistance Error" and assembly would not save. The only way I found around
this problem was to create indepenant IPT files for each weldment assembly.
Seems like a terrible waste to create twice as many IPT files as needed
(remember the as-welded assemblies are identical). Im I missing something
here? Is my answer awaiting in the illusive and much anticipated
SP1?
Message 5 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

Yes you can Rick.  Start a new part, derive
part and select the assembly.  It will turn the entire assembly into one
derived part.


--
Sean Dotson, PE

href="http://www.sdotson.com">http://www.sdotson.com

...sleep is for the
weak..
-----------------------------------------


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
You
can't derive an assembly. You can only derive parts.
Rick
Message 6 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

Rick,

I'm pretty sure (just done it!!) that you can derive assemblies into a
part. Then create a derived mirrored component from that part.

Cheers,

--Rob Singlehurst
"rstadler" wrote in message
news:f123557.2@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> You can't derive an assembly. You can only derive parts. Rick
Message 7 of 18
rstadler
in reply to: rstadler

Actually, I have tired this before, but I don't see a mirror option when you derive an assembly. Rick
Message 8 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

You can't directly created a derived part of an
assembly that is a mirror image.  You have to derive the assembly into a
part, then derive that derived part with the mirror option checked.


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
Actually,
I have tired this before, but I don't see a mirror option when you derive an
assembly. Rick
Message 9 of 18
rstadler
in reply to: rstadler

So it's a two step operation. #1 Create new part and derive the assembly into that part (with same handedness). #2 Create new new part and derive and mirror the first derived part into the second derived part. Is this the process?... You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out, you chuck IV6 out the window and buy something else...
Message 10 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

Yes it's a 2 step process...

 

If you can find the perfect CAD package that does
EVERYTHING then yes...(and be sure to tell us what it is..)


--
Sean Dotson, PE

href="http://www.sdotson.com">http://www.sdotson.com

...sleep is for the
weak..
-----------------------------------------


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
You
put your left foot in, you put your left foot out, you chuck IV6 out the
window and buy something else...
Message 11 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

Wonder if Leonardo could write "the perfect CAD
package" anyone know his number? <G>

~Larry 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Yes it's a 2 step process...

 

If you can find the perfect CAD package that does
EVERYTHING then yes...(and be sure to tell us what it is..)


--
Sean Dotson, PE

href="http://www.sdotson.com">http://www.sdotson.com

...sleep is for
the weak..
-----------------------------------------


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
You
put your left foot in, you put your left foot out, you chuck IV6 out the
window and buy something else...
Message 12 of 18
rstadler
in reply to: rstadler

All in all, I'm not to terribly disatisfied w/ IV6. It just seems like they missed a few BASIC things (and keep missing them through all the releases). A SIMPLE way to mirror an assembly is a good example. Hopefully SP1 will be the answer to all your prayers - we'll find out tomorrow if the Autodesk server doesn't overload. My other question still remains... are you supposed to be able to include the same IPT into different weldment IAMs and machine them w/o this persistance error?
Message 13 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

I have found that if I make a derived part from an
assembly to use as a mirrored assembly I will use the same file name as the
assembly and just tack on "for derived" to the end of the file name. This way I
can easily find it but I can also easily tell that it's just a reference or
"dummy model" and not to use it for anything. Just my 2 bits worth.

 



style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
Wonder if Leonardo could write "the perfect CAD
package" anyone know his number? <G>

~Larry 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Yes it's a 2 step process...

 

If you can find the perfect CAD package that
does EVERYTHING then yes...(and be sure to tell us what it
is..)


--
Sean Dotson, PE

href="http://www.sdotson.com">http://www.sdotson.com

...sleep is for
the weak..
-----------------------------------------


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
You
put your left foot in, you put your left foot out, you chuck IV6 out the
window and buy something
else...
Message 14 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

As Charles Bliss pointed out a while ago when this topic was raised, at
what point do you stop mirroring.

Do your right hand threads become left hand threads?

What about a mirrored assembly where the same components are used, but
just re-oriented? Do we want IV to generate a whole set of duplicate
parts that are just mirror images of the original?

If it were as easy as it initially sounds, I expect we'd have had the
tools already.

Just being the devil's advocate.

Richard
Message 15 of 18
rstadler
in reply to: rstadler

You (or Charles) make a good point. I had not thought about threads (although I suspect the right answer for 99% of us is No, you don't mirror threads). Rick
Message 16 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

I also would like to have a function for mirrored
assemblies.

But I think it's not that easy. Some parts in a
mirrored assembly

have to be mirrored parts. But what do you want to
get if

a part in the mirrored assembly is identically to
the one

in the original assembly? Similar
face=Arial size=2>parts with different part

numbers? What should happen
size=2>to Fasteners?

(What's about mirrored Fasteners with
face=Arial size=2>left

hand threads in the mirrored assembly?
<g>)

You see what I mean?
--
Michael
Puschner
mp@scholle.de

 

 

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
All
in all, I'm not to terribly disatisfied w/ IV6. It just seems like they missed
a few BASIC things (and keep missing them through all the releases). A SIMPLE
way to mirror an assembly is a good example. Hopefully SP1 will be the answer
to all your prayers - we'll find out tomorrow if the Autodesk server doesn't
overload. My other question still remains... are you supposed to be able to
include the same IPT into different weldment IAMs and machine them w/o this
persistance error?
Message 17 of 18
mikeh7
in reply to: rstadler

Just to add to Rick a little. What we would like to do and I think may work for him is to mirror the orientation of components in an assembly to create a new assembly. So the argument of threads is a valid one, but that would create new and unique part numbers.
An example would be a V-8 engine. The valve covers have 4 bolts on top symmetrically placed and 5 on the bottom symmetrically placed. Thus the and bolts that hold the cover on are identical, it's just that there orientaion is mirrored about the centerline of the engine. The parts don't mirror, just their orientation.

Just a wish item.
Message 18 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: rstadler

An example would be a V-8 engine. The valve covers have 4 bolts on top
symmetrically placed and 5 on the bottom symmetrically placed.

 

On a Ford maybe...Mid 70s Chevy has 2 on top and 2
on bottom, but you do have a point...<g>


--
Sean Dotson, PE

href="http://www.sdotson.com">http://www.sdotson.com

...sleep is for the
weak..
-----------------------------------------


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
Just
to add to Rick a little. What we would like to do and I think may work for him
is to mirror the orientation of components in an assembly to create a new
assembly. So the argument of threads is a valid one, but that would create new
and unique part numbers.
An example would be a V-8 engine. The valve
covers have 4 bolts on top symmetrically placed and 5 on the bottom
symmetrically placed. Thus the and bolts that hold the cover on are identical,
it's just that there orientaion is mirrored about the centerline of the
engine. The parts don't mirror, just their orientation.

Just a wish item.

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