Inventor General Discussion

Inventor General Discussion

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*Caldwell, Larry
Message 1 of 35 (65 Views)

Shape manager unmanageable

65 Views, 34 Replies
11-07-2002 09:21 AM
No complex shapes allowed I guess. Out of
curiosity, I tried a boat hull. Don't see a way to do it with the depth
shallower than the width because it would require a loft.The limitations of the
loft being loathe to even touch another face much less join with it prevent
this. It is possible to loft half the hull and mirror it, but then there's a
small gap (guess mirrored faces have an aversion to other faces as well)
which won't fill by any means I have found. Evidentially some edges of a
loft refuse to fillet giving an error, in effect: no edge found. It is
possible to shell one half of the hull by a very small amount (much less than
the radius of the smallest bend) and then it is possible to cut the
face that remains but that leaves remnants of the gap that was left by the
mirror operation. Trying to shell removing both the horizontal and vertical
faces fails. Replace Face will remove the deck faces to make a shell, but won't
thicken.

 

Unless I'm missing something here, I'd say the
answer to the boat hull modeling question would be: Not a chance, if it needs to
be a real boat hull.

~Larry
*Hintehoeller, Richard
Message 2 of 35 (65 Views)

Re: Shape manager unmanageable

11-07-2002 10:27 AM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
Larry:

I thought I (and of course Jeff Howard) was the only one whacky enough
to mess around with boats in IV.

I'm not sure what you're after but I posted a quick & dirty half-model
in CF under this heading. For most sailboat shapes, I find you have to
do one half and then mirror. Admittedly my submission is a 70's era
shape (I won't give away all of my secrets) done in IV 5.3, but it
works. You ought to see some of the funky elliptical rudders I design.

A fellow by the name of Harry Harrison posted a file under "America's
Cup Hull" that's really neat. I haven't found a covering post anywhere.

Have a good one.

Richard

Larry Caldwell wrote:
> No complex shapes allowed I guess. Out of curiosity, I tried a boat
> hull. Don't see a way to do it with the depth shallower than the width
> because it would require a loft.The limitations of the loft being loathe
> to even touch another face much less join with it prevent this. It is
> possible to loft half the hull and mirror it, but then there's a small
> gap (guess mirrored faces have an aversion to other faces as well) which
> won't fill by any means I have found. Evidentially some edges of a
> loft refuse to fillet giving an error, in effect: no edge found. It is
> possible to shell one half of the hull by a very small amount (much less
> than the radius of the smallest bend) and then it is possible to cut the
> face that remains but that leaves remnants of the gap that was left by
> the mirror operation. Trying to shell removing both the horizontal and
> vertical faces fails. Replace Face will remove the deck faces to make a
> shell, but won't thicken.
>
> Unless I'm missing something here, I'd say the answer to the boat hull
> modeling question would be: Not a chance, if it needs to be a real boat
> hull.
> ~Larry
*Fulford, Drew
Message 3 of 35 (65 Views)

Re:

11-07-2002 11:17 AM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
And for fun, i made richards 1/2 hull complete, shelled with a trim lip and
with bottom paint. Its below his over in CF. Mines in R6 format. Shelling
and sweeping the lip were a synch.

- Drew
--


Drew Fulford, B.A.Sc. Systems Engineer
Solid Caddgroup Inc, Burlington, Ontario
Phone: (905) 331-9670 Fax: (905) 331-7280

Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
Check out my MDT & Inventor FAQ @ http://www.mymcad.com/

"Richard Hintehoeller" wrote in message
news:3DCB210E.2010108@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> Larry:
>
> I thought I (and of course Jeff Howard) was the only one whacky enough
> to mess around with boats in IV.
>
> I'm not sure what you're after but I posted a quick & dirty half-model
> in CF under this heading. For most sailboat shapes, I find you have to
> do one half and then mirror. Admittedly my submission is a 70's era
> shape (I won't give away all of my secrets) done in IV 5.3, but it
> works. You ought to see some of the funky elliptical rudders I design.
>
> A fellow by the name of Harry Harrison posted a file under "America's
> Cup Hull" that's really neat. I haven't found a covering post anywhere.
>
> Have a good one.
>
> Richard
>
> Larry Caldwell wrote:
> > No complex shapes allowed I guess. Out of curiosity, I tried a boat
> > hull. Don't see a way to do it with the depth shallower than the width
> > because it would require a loft.The limitations of the loft being loathe
> > to even touch another face much less join with it prevent this. It is
> > possible to loft half the hull and mirror it, but then there's a small
> > gap (guess mirrored faces have an aversion to other faces as well) which
> > won't fill by any means I have found. Evidentially some edges of a
> > loft refuse to fillet giving an error, in effect: no edge found. It is
> > possible to shell one half of the hull by a very small amount (much less
> > than the radius of the smallest bend) and then it is possible to cut the
> > face that remains but that leaves remnants of the gap that was left by
> > the mirror operation. Trying to shell removing both the horizontal and
> > vertical faces fails. Replace Face will remove the deck faces to make a
> > shell, but won't thicken.
> >
> > Unless I'm missing something here, I'd say the answer to the boat hull
> > modeling question would be: Not a chance, if it needs to be a real boat
> > hull.
> > ~Larry
>
*Keller, Kent
Message 4 of 35 (65 Views)

Re:

11-07-2002 12:11 PM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
For some reason your post lock up my OE. Usually it is only the ones that
have all the text showing in the file that do it but yours doesn't. Odd.

--
Kent Keller
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program

http://www.MyMcad.com/KWiK/Mcad.htm

"Drew Fulford" wrote in message
news:AAB76B705BE85AC233C6A12A437E20E2@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> And for fun, i made richards 1/2 hull complete, shelled with a trim lip
and
> with bottom paint. Its below his over in CF. Mines in R6 format. Shelling
> and sweeping the lip were a synch.
>
> - Drew
>
*Caldwell, Larry
Message 5 of 35 (65 Views)

Re:

11-07-2002 12:48 PM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
Locked mine up as well.
~Larry

"Drew Fulford" wrote in message
news:AAB76B705BE85AC233C6A12A437E20E2@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> And for fun, i made richards 1/2 hull complete, shelled with a trim lip
and
> with bottom paint. Its below his over in CF. Mines in R6 format. Shelling
> and sweeping the lip were a synch.
>
> - Drew
> --
>
>
> Drew Fulford, B.A.Sc. Systems Engineer
> Solid Caddgroup Inc, Burlington, Ontario
> Phone: (905) 331-9670 Fax: (905) 331-7280
>
> Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
> Check out my MDT & Inventor FAQ @ http://www.mymcad.com/
>
> "Richard Hintehoeller" wrote in message
> news:3DCB210E.2010108@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> > Larry:
> >
> > I thought I (and of course Jeff Howard) was the only one whacky enough
> > to mess around with boats in IV.
> >
> > I'm not sure what you're after but I posted a quick & dirty half-model
> > in CF under this heading. For most sailboat shapes, I find you have to
> > do one half and then mirror. Admittedly my submission is a 70's era
> > shape (I won't give away all of my secrets) done in IV 5.3, but it
> > works. You ought to see some of the funky elliptical rudders I design.
> >
> > A fellow by the name of Harry Harrison posted a file under "America's
> > Cup Hull" that's really neat. I haven't found a covering post anywhere.
> >
> > Have a good one.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > Larry Caldwell wrote:
> > > No complex shapes allowed I guess. Out of curiosity, I tried a boat
> > > hull. Don't see a way to do it with the depth shallower than the width
> > > because it would require a loft.The limitations of the loft being
loathe
> > > to even touch another face much less join with it prevent this. It is
> > > possible to loft half the hull and mirror it, but then there's a small
> > > gap (guess mirrored faces have an aversion to other faces as well)
which
> > > won't fill by any means I have found. Evidentially some edges of a
> > > loft refuse to fillet giving an error, in effect: no edge found. It is
> > > possible to shell one half of the hull by a very small amount (much
less
> > > than the radius of the smallest bend) and then it is possible to cut
the
> > > face that remains but that leaves remnants of the gap that was left by
> > > the mirror operation. Trying to shell removing both the horizontal and
> > > vertical faces fails. Replace Face will remove the deck faces to make
a
> > > shell, but won't thicken.
> > >
> > > Unless I'm missing something here, I'd say the answer to the boat hull
> > > modeling question would be: Not a chance, if it needs to be a real
boat
> > > hull.
> > > ~Larry
> >
>
>
*Caldwell, Larry
Message 6 of 35 (65 Views)

Re:

11-07-2002 12:52 PM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
Okay, I put my failure in CF if ya'll care to take a peek. Is this basic, no
control dims, shape (as Drew put it) a synch as well?
~Larry


"Richard Hintehoeller" wrote in message
news:3DCB210E.2010108@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> Larry:
>
> I thought I (and of course Jeff Howard) was the only one whacky enough
> to mess around with boats in IV.
>
> I'm not sure what you're after but I posted a quick & dirty half-model
> in CF under this heading. For most sailboat shapes, I find you have to
> do one half and then mirror. Admittedly my submission is a 70's era
> shape (I won't give away all of my secrets) done in IV 5.3, but it
> works. You ought to see some of the funky elliptical rudders I design.
>
> A fellow by the name of Harry Harrison posted a file under "America's
> Cup Hull" that's really neat. I haven't found a covering post anywhere.
>
> Have a good one.
>
> Richard
>
> Larry Caldwell wrote:
> > No complex shapes allowed I guess. Out of curiosity, I tried a boat
> > hull. Don't see a way to do it with the depth shallower than the width
> > because it would require a loft.The limitations of the loft being loathe
> > to even touch another face much less join with it prevent this. It is
> > possible to loft half the hull and mirror it, but then there's a small
> > gap (guess mirrored faces have an aversion to other faces as well) which
> > won't fill by any means I have found. Evidentially some edges of a
> > loft refuse to fillet giving an error, in effect: no edge found. It is
> > possible to shell one half of the hull by a very small amount (much less
> > than the radius of the smallest bend) and then it is possible to cut the
> > face that remains but that leaves remnants of the gap that was left by
> > the mirror operation. Trying to shell removing both the horizontal and
> > vertical faces fails. Replace Face will remove the deck faces to make a
> > shell, but won't thicken.
> >
> > Unless I'm missing something here, I'd say the answer to the boat hull
> > modeling question would be: Not a chance, if it needs to be a real boat
> > hull.
> > ~Larry
>
*Fulford, Drew
Message 7 of 35 (65 Views)

Re:

11-07-2002 01:35 PM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
I reposted as a zipped file

Richard, sorry but i had to add that reverse transom :smileyhappy:

Kent, it was a rolled back IPT file. You suppose those are the OE culprit? I
went to see if it locked me up but it was gone already.

- drew

--


Drew Fulford, B.A.Sc. Systems Engineer
Solid Caddgroup Inc, Burlington, Ontario
Phone: (905) 331-9670 Fax: (905) 331-7280

Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
Check out my MDT & Inventor FAQ @ http://www.mymcad.com/

"Kent Keller" wrote in message
news:618D8C8B78180D497E6ADF73D6A34145@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> For some reason your post lock up my OE. Usually it is only the ones that
> have all the text showing in the file that do it but yours doesn't. Odd.
>
> --
> Kent Keller
> Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
>
> http://www.MyMcad.com/KWiK/Mcad.htm
>
> "Drew Fulford" wrote in message
> news:AAB76B705BE85AC233C6A12A437E20E2@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > And for fun, i made richards 1/2 hull complete, shelled with a trim lip
> and
> > with bottom paint. Its below his over in CF. Mines in R6 format.
Shelling
> > and sweeping the lip were a synch.
> >
> > - Drew
> >
>
>
*Hintehoeller, Richard
Message 8 of 35 (65 Views)

Re:

11-07-2002 08:33 PM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
See Larry, it can be done.

Now how do we flat pattern these suckers ;-)

Richard
*Caldwell, Larry
Message 9 of 35 (65 Views)

Re:

11-07-2002 08:47 PM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
Thought we were going to let ... "them" ... figure out the flat pattern!

Yeah, your shape can be done, but mine is one big whack. I wanted a round
bow at deck level and that's the reason for the radial approach. Glad I
tested it before I adjusted the shape with dims.
~Larry

"Richard Hintehoeller" wrote in message
news:3DCBAF06.7060701@hfx.eastlink.ca...
> See Larry, it can be done.
>
> Now how do we flat pattern these suckers ;-)
>
> Richard
>
*Hintehoeller, Richard
Message 10 of 35 (65 Views)

Re:

11-07-2002 09:55 PM in reply to: *Caldwell, Larry
Larry:

My submission was just thrown together as a proof of concept. It may be
possible to apply a fillet to my stem flat or that may be beyond Shape
Manager's current capabilities.

The reason I favour using cross sections instead of the radial approach
is because that's the way I think about yacht design. Even drawing the
station at the bow on the 'Wrong' side of the centre plane and having
the computer work out the profile is a psychological stretch.

It certainly is a nice diversion from the day job.

Richard
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