Retrieved Dimension Not Updating

[t.bennett]

I am trying to get to the point where I apply tolerances in the part and retrieve the dimensions in the IDW.  I've noticed that the tolerances do not update if you have already retrieved the dimension and then gone to the part and changed it.  There is no option to update the drawing after this, saving both files does nothing, and updating the part does nothing.

Steps:

1. Build part and apply tolerance to dimension

2. Create IDW and retrieve dimension with tolerance

3. Update tolerance in part

4. Tolerance does not update in drawing

Also, it seems the tolerance section in the dimension properties ignores the precision.  I'm currently working in inches and have entered a metric dimension as "35.7mm", this comes out to 1.405512 in the value box as expected but when adding a tolerance like Limits-Stacked it also shows this full number instead of rounding to the precision value which is set to 0.123.

[t.bennett]

Inventor Professional 2014, 64-but
Build: 246, Release: 2014 SP2 - Date: Fri 04/11/2014

[t.bennett]

Changing an iproperty on the model causes the IDW to update to reflect the change but the dimension still does not update.

[CAD-One]

Hope some one knows a answer to this.. 

[SBix26]

Likewise.  I'm not using retrieved dimensions specifically because the tolerances do not respect the precision setting and I get tired of having to re-set the precision on each dimension in the drawing every time it updates.

I haven't noticed the problem the original poster mentioned, though (tolerances not updating after changing in the model).

Sam B
Inventor 2012 Certified Professional

Inventor Professional 2015 Update 2
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit, SP1
HP EliteBook 8770w; 8 GB RAM; Core™ i7-3720QM 2.60 GHz; Quadro K4000M

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! This is a known limitation in retrieved dimension workflow. Basically, the tolerance in retrieved model dimension may not always be in sync with the model tolerance. We are aware of the concern but I am not aware of any good solution to resolve the issue at this moment unfortunately.

Thanks!

[lesmfunk]

Any progress on this issue in IV2014 or newer?

We'd love to make use of this feature, but we have to educate the drafters to manually re-retrieve dimensions every time the engineers make a change. (That's if the engineers remember to alert the drafters)

It really should automatically update.

[Baishihu]

I am frustrated too.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! Is your issue about the mode tolerance associated with retrieved model dimension being out of sync with the drawing tolerance after you made change in drawing? If yes, it is a limitation. The tolerance change in retrieved dimension in drawing does not trigger an update in the model. Once the link is broken, the model tolerance no longer drives the drawing tolerance.

If this is not the behavior you are seeing or this is not the workflow you are talking about, please be more specific. I would like to understand your frustration better.

Many thanks!

[t2mcinto]

Hi,

Do I understand correctly that if I make any change to a retrieved dimension, such as making it an inspection dimension, the edit breaks the link to the model and tolerances will no longer be updated if the model changes?

Is there any progress on this?

Best,

Thomas

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! This thread is a bit old. I am very sorry I cannot say I remember much detail about it or what exact problem was. I don't recall OP provided further information. Do you mind sharing an example exhibiting the behavior? It is possible you issue is identical to the thread. Or, it is also possible that it may not be related at all. Please feel free to share it here or send it to me directly (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com).

Many thanks!

[t2mcinto]

Many thanks for the quick response.

My problem is with Retrieved Dimensions not updating if they are changed in any way on the drawing.

To reproduce the problem:

1 - Create and save a Part with a dimensional tolerance.

2 - Create and save a Drawing of the Part

3 - Retrieve Model Annotation of the dimension of the part

4 - Change dimension tolerance in the Part

5 - The Retrieved Dimension in the Drawing updates correctly.

6 - However, now EDIT the dimension in the Drawing (by dbl clicking) and change it to an inspection dimension.

7 - Modify tolerance in the Part 

8 - Dimension no longer updates in the Drawing.

Here is a screencast of the above workflow.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! This is a very good catch. I am able to reproduce the behavior. This is specific to Inspection Dimension option. When the option is off, the model dimension and tolerance will be propagated to the drawing properly. I will work with the project team to understand this behavior better.

Many thanks!

[frugal]

Hi, 

This behavior is not limited to the inspection option. ANY edit to a Retrieved Dimension made simply by double clicking on the dimension in the drawing (changing the precision for example) breaks the link to the model dimension.

For what it is worth, I think there are a number of problems with the current implementation of the Retrieve Model Annotations:

  1 A better method is required for retrieving annotations when the creation sketch is not in the same plane as the view - which happens often. I understand that the retrieve by feature option in the dialog box is supposed to do this, but it often doesn't work in the situation described above. I don't really understand why is not possible to "retrieve" dimensional annotations with the regular dimension tool.

  2 A graphic representation of whether drawing dimensions are overrides of model dimensions. 

Thanks for looking into this.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! I guess you are not on 2018. Actually, the behavior has been changed in 2018 so that any change in model tolerance will be propagated to retrieved dimensions in the drawing. Unfortunately, it still does not work if Inspection Dimension is checked. I am working with the project team to understand the behavior better.

Many thanks!
 

[andrew_faix]

Hi, thanks for detailing this issue here.

As is likely obvious, the behavior you're seeing here is the result of a pretty simple ownership rule: once recovered in a drawing, if the dimension is edited, the drawing and the drawing only owns all dimension formatting.

So, technically, this is "as-designed", not a bug.  What you're asking for is a functional improvement here with respect that rule.  Effectively, the rule we have is too blunt and we need to be more nuanced about what constitutes an "edit" to a dimension so that we continue to associate the tolerance and precision formatting to the model.

I'm not trying to justify the behavior, just explaining why things are the way they are and that a "fix" isn't completely straight-forward as we'd all like it to be.

We're going to evaluate the possibility of addressing this issue by determining if we can be more nuanced with the editing conditions.

The MBD/3DA functionality we introduced in 2018 exacerbates this problem and complicates the solution.  This is because we use this same rule for recovered annotation dimensions, and unlike a model dimension, 3DA dimensions can be edited just like a drawing dimension: append text, and designate as inspection.

That said, if you're on 2018 consider using MBD/3DA as a solution to the problem you're having.

Instead of recovering the model dimension in the drawing and designating as inspection there try this:

• Right-click on the dimension in the model and choose "Promote" (this generates a 3DA dimension)
• Edit the 3DA dimension and designate as inspection
• Recover the 3DA dimension instead of the the model dimension in drawing

[t2mcinto]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for weighing in on this.

Interesting, I hadn't looked at 3DA until now.

I also understand better the complexity of the problem (my sympathies ;). 

What you propose is certainly a work-around for the problem.

I would still argue that there is a strong case for changing the current behavior.

My reason for posting had to do with the fear that I share with one of the other contributors to this thread:

---

We'd love to make use of this feature, but we have to educate the drafters to manually re-retrieve dimensions every time the engineers make a change. (That's if the engineers remember to alert the drafters)

---

Or, I would add, "if the draftsperson and the designer are the same, but are coming back to make a revision after any length of time..."

Now I have to know/remember whether any given 2D annotation was a drawing dimension, a retrieved dimension or a retrieved 3DA. In addition to this, while it is not possible to dimension a model feature twice, it is possible to have two contradictory 3DAs, as in the example attached. The possibility for error here is significant: I now have four possible sources from which to dimension the same feature, three of which (in this case) are incorrect.

I realize that MBD/3DA is a new feature for 2018 and that not everyone has the same concerns as I do, but I am sure that I and the OP are not alone in wanting to be able to do the following:

1. Build part and apply tolerance and precision, format, inspection etc to dimension

2. Create IDW and retrieve model dimension with tolerance etc

3. Update tolerance or precision etc in part - drawing dimensions follow

4. Allow or disallow changes to drawing dimensions to affect model dimension (ie effectively greying out retrieved dimensions)

5. Easily see which IDW dimensions are not linked to their model source.

Many thanks,

Thomas

[andrew_faix]

I'm certainly not suggesting we won't fix the problem.  Only that because it's technically not a bug, it gets prioritized differently.  We've been discussing it internally and we should be able to address it soon.

[t.bennett]

This issue seems to be mostly solved in 2018.  Retrieved dimensions and tolerances do update in the drawing after changing them in the part now.  There still remains an issue with primary tolerance units as it does not match the precision set in the dimension properties of the model.  There are no settings in the dimension properties of the model that allow you to change the units in the retrieved dimension on the drawing.  Changing the precision in the dimension properties on the model side only changes the primary unit precision on the drawing side.  Still not much point in using it if I have to go through every dimension in the drawing and change the precision to reflect the tolerance...

[andrew_faix]

Can you clarify whether you're recovering and modifying sketch/model dimensions or 3DA dimensions?  A screencast or a couple of images would be helpful.

There are a few variables I need to pin down before we can ascertain how best to address the problem you're describing.

Thanks!

-Andrew