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Reference parts not showing in IDW..

18 REPLIES 18
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Message 1 of 19
ktb
Participant
4990 Views, 18 Replies

Reference parts not showing in IDW..

Hello

 

I am having trouble with getting the reference parts of my assemblies to show on the IDW drawings.

That is, most of them show, but some items dissapear...

 

On the attached picture you can see what i mean... its of a circular structure with a doorframe mounted.

One is put in as normal assembly, one is put in as reference part.

The circular structure shows, but the door is missing (in some views). When I do a sectional view of the view where it is missing it appears..

 

 

Any ideas tips will be highly appreciated....

 

For the records... I am using Inventor 2014

18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
mrattray
in reply to: ktb

Check the view settings. On the second tab is a view margin setting, try setting this to something much larger than it is. There are also some options to control the way the reference lines are drawn on this tab, should you want to modify them as well.
Mike (not Matt) Rattray

Message 3 of 19
dan_inv09
in reply to: ktb

I was reading Mike (not Matt)'s response and it didn't make sense to me at first.

 

I had tried to use reference parts once, a long time ago, so my memory might not be right or they may have changed something in the ensuing releases - I thought it clipped things at the view margin, rather than showing all of just the parts that cross it. (It might be something like "section participation".) The door falls within the margin for the section view.

 

If you made a derived part of your assembly to use for the reference view it should show the whole thing, I think.

Message 4 of 19
ktb
Participant
in reply to: dan_inv09

Setting it to a large value should only help if it was cut in the edges right?

My problem is that it hides only certain parts in sub assys....
Message 5 of 19
mrattray
in reply to: ktb

Took a second look at the image, you guys are right. That was a reflex response to a frequently asked question.
Can you post the files here for us to look at? The only other idea I can come up with is if you have some sort of view rep issue going on.
Mike (not Matt) Rattray

Message 6 of 19
dan_inv09
in reply to: ktb

In your case it does not appear to be cutting. It is including the whole part if part of the part falls within the margin. Because the door parts are not inside the margin the door does not get shown. If you notice, the view where you put the section line – the bottom flange is missing, in the bottom view it’s there because it’s within the margin for that view.

 

Try this; put another reference one to the right in about the same place (maybe up a little instead of down too).

 

Another thing we can try is to throw in something like a bolt and pattern it every couple inches 10 or 20 times in one or more directions. Where they appear or not will help figure out where the margins are.

 

Also we could try figuring out why it shows the whole body rather than cutting it off at the margin. I’m going to assume it follow the section participation – either in the browser or edit view dialog, although I’m not sure.

Message 7 of 19
ktb
Participant
in reply to: dan_inv09

Thanks for the suggestions, really apprechiated. I will investigate further when I am back in the office on monday.

What I can add is that this happens on different iam's, not only the one on the screenie...
Message 8 of 19
ktb
Participant
in reply to: ktb

So, today I am back in the office and started testing further..

 

I added a number of bolts from the content center in a cross like pattern extending outside the models.. I also added a third iam on the other side of the original one.

 

It seems that this "fixed" the problem somehow.. Before i added the bolts I had the same issue as before, but after the addition of the bolts it all came together. All parts were showing as shown in the attached screenie....

 

I can also add, that I had alot of old idw's which worked perferctly earlier, but now have the same issue... adding parts outside the model seems to fix these also in the same way as the screenshot...

 

Thanks for the answers and help... even thou I still don't understand the problem, it is somehow fixed and I can show what I need on my drawings !

 

 

Message 9 of 19
ktb
Participant
in reply to: ktb

or well..... it was "fixed" until i deleted the bolts again.... and things went back to "normal" again with the missing parts...

Message 10 of 19
dan_inv09
in reply to: ktb

The bolts were supposed to give us an idea of where the view margin was. You've got them in the main assembly so that extended the view margin. I might not have specified that we were going to try them in the reference. (I don't know if you can try making them reference in the pattern

 

I think your best bet will be to make a new part and derive your sub assembly into that, then place that as your reference. It's an extra step and an extra part file (and I'm not even entirely sure if it will work).

 

I forget, what version are you on? I'm on 2013 and it cuts right through the reference parts - but in the junk I'm playing around with, if a fastener crosses the margin it disappears (sort of the opposite of what you're seeing - maybe they tried to fix one of these problems and broke it the other way). --- Actually it's even weirder, in the other view the bolt that crosses the border is there, cut off, but the nut and lockwasher that are near the margin are not there (I could see maybe the nut might be crossing but the lockwasher certainly isn't).

This is really bizarre, I dragged the ref to the other side of the other part - the nut is crossing the actual view and the lockwasher is gone. So these particular content center parts have their own margin or something. (Some experimenting to the side this time and the washer is .16 away from the outer extent of the non reference sub assembly and visible but the nut that goes with it is not.)

 

[We have to be careful about what we them ask to fix because they are likely to decide the best way to deal with the problem is a new color scheme.]

Message 11 of 19
ktb
Participant
in reply to: ktb

Im on 2014, but since we reorganized our company lately I have new templates etc. All the models were made in 2013 and migrated when saving and moved to a new Vault.

I have sent the problem to my CAD supplier and will see more tomorrow
Message 12 of 19
ktb
Participant
in reply to: ktb

Moving the bolts i added into the reference part kinda had the same effect as having them in the assembly itself..

 

Everything shows when they are there, but when I delete them it missing again..

 

I also derived the assembly into another part... added this in the main assembly (the one with the 3 circular structures) and set it to "reference".... And everything shows again....

Message 13 of 19
jozef.dubaj
in reply to: ktb

Hello,

 

could you please send the dataset (iam, ipt, idw files packed together) to <my.login>@autodesk.com.

 

Thank you,

Jozef

Message 14 of 19
jozef.dubaj
in reply to: ktb

Thank you for sending the dataset. I was playing with it and found that while placing the base view the Model State>Margin needs to be adjusted from 0 value. In my case with value 49 or less I'm getting exactly same picture as you posted. Value 50 and above shows the whole view.

 

You may edit the existing view by double click on it and change te value as well.

Reference parts are not considered to fit into a view by default. Therefore it needs to by adjusted manualy if you want to show them.

 

Greets,

Jozef

Message 15 of 19
dan_inv09
in reply to: jozef.dubaj

"Reference parts are not considered to fit into a view by default. Therefore it needs to by adjusted manualy if you want to show them."

 

I'm not sure that is the issue. I'm pretty sure we all understand that you've got to adjust the view margin to get reference parts to show, but the behavior we're seeing is something else!

 

With the margins where they were:

Why does the whole body of his tank show but not the door?

If you look back at the pictures, in the top view the flange around the bottom of the reference sub assembly shows, but not in the side view. Why?

Why is it not cutting the parts at the margin? My 2013 does - but some content center parts in my sub assembly disappear if they are outside of some different margin, what's up with that?

 

Is there a setting to cut all parts at the view margin, or was this something that was changed from 2013 to 2014? Was it announced in the "What's New"? Is there a way to get it to treat the sub assembly the same way it treats its parts?

What is the deal with my experience with a bolt cutting at the margin but lockwasher and nut being all or nothing at a different distance - is that also changed in 2014 - if so, is it just wrong in a slightly different way?

 

The answer to the original problem is to adjust the view margin - but the way it looked, it's hard to see that that was the issue. Sub assembly parts that are almost entirely within other sub assembly parts that are completely shown aren't shown - and it changes from view to view. If the reference parts were cut off at the view margin it would be obvious, just make it bigger until it all shows, but the behavior in idw.PNG in the first post makes it hard tell that's the problem.

Maybe if there was a checkbox, "Include reference in view margin calculation" or something. Every time I've used them I had to adjust the margin to show the whole thing, but I could possibly see wanting reference parts cut off - but the way it appears to work in 2014, I don't see how anyone would want that.

 

So, why does it do what it did?

Message 16 of 19
ktb
Participant
in reply to: dan_inv09

@Jozef

Thanks for spending time checking this.

Seeing that you get the whole model to show using margins of 50 makes me believe that there is something wrong with some of my other settings... Changing it to 50 makes no difference to me. The flange is still missing.

As written earlier I have just done a fresh install of 2014, and moved all our models from our previous company (used 2013) into this fresh install. This could lead to some settings being wrong at my side, thou the installment was done by our CAD supplier so settings SHOULD be correct...

 

In addition, I have to agree with dan_inv09, having too small margins should not "hide" whole sub-assys, it should cut it directly off  (like shown on the attached picture, using margins of 10)

 

I have been using this reference method for quite some years now, and something feels weird in 2014 so far....

Message 17 of 19
dan_inv09
in reply to: ktb

This is what I get in 2013. The reference is actually cut.

ktb's still seems to be showing the entire part if it crosses the view margin (except now it only shows half of the main body - was that two pieces before? I wonder why the other half was showing before - did you change something in the model?).

Message 18 of 19
dan_inv09
in reply to: dan_inv09

I dropped a 4 x 4 pattern of reference bolts behind and cranked the margin from 0.3-something to 5.

 

I wondered why the top left (actually, it's the second row - the top row is outside the view margin) wasn't showing up in the lower picture. So, I turned off the visibllity of the reference housing and there it is. What sort of decision making process does Inventor go through with reference parts and drawing views?

I think you need to go through the code and take a hard look at everywhere you put a "RND(), because this behavior certainly doesn't seem to have any sort of consistency.

Message 19 of 19
ktb
Participant
in reply to: dan_inv09

Apparantly the problem I am having will be fixed with the arrival of the first SP...

Jozef has tested my models in the SP and all seems fine there...

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