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Parts derived from assembly - parts lose color 2012

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Message 1 of 25
salsibar
3694 Views, 24 Replies

Parts derived from assembly - parts lose color 2012

Guys

  

Concerning Inventor 2012...

 

We do a good bit of deriving parts from assemblies. We have a workflow that works well for us, we create PARTS, put them in an ASSEMBLY, then create new PARTS DERIVED from ASSEMBLY. We use Boolean to add/subtract and disregard parts as needed to create these parts. These parts are now given color and reassembled in an yet another final ASSEMBLY as needed and put into a drawing.

 

Through Inventor 2011 this worked well. 

 

In Inventor 2012 the color is disapering as soon as any change is made on a source part.

 

1 Changing the color does not work.

 

2 In the derived from Assembly, opening up (in the browser) the individual .ipt's and right clicking and clicking properties and changing the color only stays until the next change to the source prt.

 

3 Changing EACH individual face by right click, properties and setting the FACE PROPERTIES from "as feature" to "as part" does work, but is ridiculous to change hundreds of faces on each part. (especially considering we did NOT need this step in 2011)

Please Autodesk - HELP!!!   Is there a switch in the registry (to turn off the standard “as feature” to the parts face) or somewhere to help us out with this problem?  

 

 

Thanks to all / any in advance.

 

Barry Salsi
Project Engineer
Inventor 2012
Windows 7 64, 6gb RAM, Nvidia 4000
24 REPLIES 24
Message 2 of 25
scottmoyse
in reply to: salsibar

We have the same problem albeit slightly different. 

 

I'm actually pretty angry this still hasn't been fixed, its been flaky for the last 3 releases (since solid bodies were introduced). It's been posted on several times on this forum over the years and I don't recall an autodesk employee ever commenting on it.

 

Here is my post http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Inventor/Color-styles-being-reset-to-source-file-color-style-...

 

You can fix your issue in a my simpler way than editing the color of each face. But its still unacceptable in my book!

 

I'm also surprised more people don't have this issue.  Since i believe more often than not a solid body model would emcompass parts with different materials, and not the same materials. Hence why would retaining colors from the source be the rule rather than the exception?

 

I want to make it clear, that we don't create color overrides in our source files (skeletal/solid body models). But Inventor is seeing the source files default color as an override and is then in turn overriding and constantly resetting the parts color styles!


Scott Moyse
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Design & Manufacturing Technical Services Manager at Cadpro New Zealand

Co-founder of the Grumpy Sloth full aluminium billet mechanical keyboard project

Message 3 of 25
scottmoyse
in reply to: scottmoyse

support have verified it and have submitted it to the dev team. Classic. yeah its a problem, sorry we can't help you. we will get back to you when we know more...............in the meantime we were more productive (in this regard) with the last version but Vault has forced us to the this years version.

 

Not sure it's our responsibility to write a macro to fix it up.

 

I do apologise for ranting, but this one has really pi**ed me off.


Scott Moyse
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Design & Manufacturing Technical Services Manager at Cadpro New Zealand

Co-founder of the Grumpy Sloth full aluminium billet mechanical keyboard project

Message 4 of 25
salsibar
in reply to: scottmoyse

No problem with the rant. I am a bit angry myself. Glad to hear I am not alone on this.

Barry Salsi
Project Engineer
Inventor 2012
Windows 7 64, 6gb RAM, Nvidia 4000
Message 5 of 25
salsibar
in reply to: salsibar

I created a series of parts using this workflow in 2011 and duplicated tmy actions in 2012.

 

In 2011 it worked great, in 2012 in fials to show color.

 

I am uncertain how this forum operates, but do Autodesk people get involved? No one has looked at this at all except for another guy having similar problems.

 

Any help out there?

Barry Salsi
Project Engineer
Inventor 2012
Windows 7 64, 6gb RAM, Nvidia 4000
Message 6 of 25
salsibar
in reply to: salsibar

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Inventor/Derived-part-color/m-p/2368807/highlight/true#M31998...

 

This link going back to 2008 dscribes the same or similar problem.

Why am I haveing this now, but never before. We upgraded every year and now w/2012 it shows up?

Barry Salsi
Project Engineer
Inventor 2012
Windows 7 64, 6gb RAM, Nvidia 4000
Message 7 of 25
salsibar
in reply to: salsibar

Is this a similar problem going back to the yr 2008, Autodesk acnowledges it is a bug? and it still is not fixed? not certain.

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Inventor/Color-of-mirrored-part/m-p/2289528

 

Barry Salsi
Project Engineer
Inventor 2012
Windows 7 64, 6gb RAM, Nvidia 4000
Message 8 of 25
johnsonshiue
in reply to: salsibar

Hi! I am sorry to hear about the troubles you have experienced in Inventor. By default, the derive assembly part color is linked to the selected design view in the source assembly. Could you try the following and see if it makes a difference?

 

a) Edit the Derive Assembly node -> go to Representation tab -> uncheck the Link option on the upper right. This step will make sure any design view change will not propagate to the derive assembly part. There is one catch though. If you edit the Derive node, the parts geometry is being reloaded and the derive assembly part color will be in sync with the source assembly color again.

 

b) Edit the Derive Assembly node -> go to Representation tab -> set it to Master. This step will completely ignore all the color overrides done on the source assembly.

 

Do you see change in colors? If I understand your workflow correctly, the behavior has been there for a while. There should not be a difference between R2011 and R2012. Please post an example here or send it to me if what you are seeing is dfferent from what I decribe here.

Thanks!

 



Johnson Shiue (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)
Software Test Engineer
Message 9 of 25
scottmoyse
in reply to: johnsonshiue

Johnson,

 

This is happening in 2011 and 2012 (only just started happening again in the last 3 weeks with 2011, for some reason) with solid body models being exported to assemblies. So no derived assemblies involved (in my case at least). See my topic thread (there is a link to it in this thread) for a workflow, it has been replicated by the support team and forwarded to the Dev team. 

 

However, as much pressure as possible from as many fronts will convey how serious this is for us and I can't believe it wouldn't be for anyone else using solid body modeling. A WELL ADVERTISED & MARKETED new modeling technique for Inventor, so I would imagine a lot of people will have introduced it as the defacto way to model in their organisations, as much for the marketing hype from Autodesk and its obvious work flow benefits.

 

I see there are design reps involved in derived parts now. I'm guessing its this, that has caused the issue in 2012's case. Also I question the value of this feature, since setting the material of a part is WAY more important than setting the pretty color style, this is an engineering package afterall and not a graphical one, you'd be forgiven for thinking that in the last 12 months given the way the Autodesk Marketing guys have been rattling on for the last 12 months. Don't get me wrong I like the pretty stuff as much as the next guy, I'm also appreciative of the new suites, we will definitely be putting the rendering and visualization side of things to use. But this will happen outside of Inventor, since showcase and max's sole purpose in life is to achieve that!

 

Off topic, but important all the same: Ray tracing in Inventor? Please, what a crock, someone at Autodesk got a little bit excited there and again forgot they are producing an engineering package. Unless you can have it render seamlessly while in 3D orbit with no lag then its pointless. I doubt this is achievable unless you have a super computer at your desk. The only purpose I can see for this is smooth screenshots. Is realtime multicore processing ray tracing available in Publisher? Definitely would be handy there.

 

Back on topic: A great visual way of being able to tell the correct material has been applied is through the use of color styles. Hence why the materials color styles being overwritten forcefully is such a problem. In our case I have 9 employees sitting here constantly chasing their tails because we manufacture wood based products, and use the 'grain direction' of the bitmaps to orientate the parts for CNC cutting. Suddenly that process is constantly in doubt, 1 sheet of 18mm marine grade ply double sided with Oak veneer is just under $1000 NZD, once the parts have been cut and then had timber edges glued onto them, the cost of those parts jumps up massively. The grain directions must be correct when they go to be programmed and nested for the CNC. Fundamental stuff!

 

I feel like doing a pack n go for every model we have this issue with and sending it to Autodesk to constantly fix up, I don't see why we should be hemorrhaging the time to do it. Look i get there are bugs in a new release, and its impossible for Autodesk to capture them all, this one however, should have been potently obvious!

 

Cheers

 

Scott


Scott Moyse
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Co-founder of the Grumpy Sloth full aluminium billet mechanical keyboard project

Message 10 of 25
johnsonshiue
in reply to: salsibar

Scott,

 

I undertand the frustration about coloring in Inventor in general. It is not ideal. There are places to be improved in this regard. Let me reply to your issues on their own threads. I am afraid lumping all of them together can make it even more confusing. This thread is about Derive Assembly coloring. I will continue the DA coloring discussion here.

Thanks!



Johnson Shiue (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)
Software Test Engineer
Message 11 of 25
scottmoyse
in reply to: johnsonshiue

cheers i look forward to it.


Scott Moyse
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Design & Manufacturing Technical Services Manager at Cadpro New Zealand

Co-founder of the Grumpy Sloth full aluminium billet mechanical keyboard project

Message 12 of 25
salsibar
in reply to: salsibar

Johnson,

I truly appreciate your reply.

I am hoping I am understanding correctly from your reply, that I should EDIT the Derived Assem Node. I right click this and "Edit Derived Assembly"

In both cases A & B my color does not change from gray. (I have it set to Magenta)

 

You say if you understand my workflow, this has been around for a while. For me it has NOT. I have NOT had a COLOR problem until  2012. I have been doing this workflow on Inventor since the year 2004.

 

I have not described my entier workflow obviously, but to describe a portion of it simply...

 

1) I create 3 parts, a1, a2, a3

2) Assemble them as needed. Lets call the assembly DA 

3) Create new parts through Derived Partsfrom Assembly using DA as the source. Lets call these a1_DER, a2_DER, a3_DER

I add color to each of these parts at this point.

The parts a1_DER through a3_DER are now reassembled as a final assembly lets call it FA.

This color stays on the a1_DER through a3_DER parts and FA assembly UNTIL any source part is modified in any manner and the the parts or assembly are updated. Once this happens color will not appear until one of two things are done.

 

1. Open a1_DER, open the derived assembly node, open the sub node (?) right click and open properties. At the bottom you will see "feature color style", set this to "as part". The part will now return to its intended color, BUT this does not "stick". As soon as a change is made, an update sets it to gray once again. Updates are VERY common.

2. If you right click on any suface of our example part a1_DER and open properties, change FACE COLOR STYLE from "as feature" to "as part" it DOES stick. The problem would (could?) be solved if the surfaces defaulted to "as part" rather than "as feature". Change every face for every part is a teadious step at best, most parts are not simple and this could be dozens of faces.

 

This again describes my problem in detail. This example is greatly simplified, but describes accuratly the problem.

(one detail I left out is that parts a1, a2, a3 are actually derived from a base part. This is form of skeletal modelling. I have tested this problem both ways and it still happens)

I want to make clear, that this does not happen in 2011. At least not for me. Only 2012

 

I can send  model package to you. Please let me know where/how to send it.

 

Barry Salsi

Barry Salsi
Project Engineer
Inventor 2012
Windows 7 64, 6gb RAM, Nvidia 4000
Message 13 of 25
johnsonshiue
in reply to: salsibar

Barry,

 

I think we are overloading terminology here. The derive assembly I was talking about is a part created via Derive -> pick an assembly. Your workflow is quite similar to Scott's. Basically, it is about Derive -> pick a part.

I have one question regarding the workflow which will help clarify some confusiong. You said "

I add color to each of these parts at this point." Where exactly you changed the color? Is it in the part file open by itself? Or is it at the assembly level? Or, is it when you edit the part in place? And, how do you change the color? Is it from the pull down menu or changing it from Properties or Material?

Thanks!

 



Johnson Shiue (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)
Software Test Engineer
Message 14 of 25
salsibar
in reply to: johnsonshiue

I am adding color to the part at the a1_DER level. 

 

I use the pull down menu at the top of the screen, to add color to the individual part I have opened. In this example part a1_DER.

 

To be clear, I have opened the individual part and changed the color at the top pull down menu bar.

 

(as for the derived node business, I am now confused about what you mean by "node", I am able to edit the derived from assembly by right clicking in the browser on one of the part things just beneigth "origin, and clicking PROPERTIES)

Barry Salsi
Project Engineer
Inventor 2012
Windows 7 64, 6gb RAM, Nvidia 4000
Message 15 of 25
scottmoyse
in reply to: salsibar

Maybe you should use Jing. Great software, then you can upload the captured video to screen cast and past the link in here. Its a brilliant tool for getting your point across, and you can do voice overs if you are game.


Scott Moyse
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Design & Manufacturing Technical Services Manager at Cadpro New Zealand

Co-founder of the Grumpy Sloth full aluminium billet mechanical keyboard project

Message 16 of 25
johnsonshiue
in reply to: salsibar

Barry,

 

I have confirmed the behavior. This is indeed an unexpected behavior starting from R2011 SP1. I believe the issue you describe here is identical to the one Scott mentioned. I am working with engineering team to see how we can correct the behavior.

Many thanks for bring this issue to our attention!

 



Johnson Shiue (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)
Software Test Engineer
Message 17 of 25
scottmoyse
in reply to: johnsonshiue

This bug is well and truely embedded in 2011 SP2. Most of our PC's weren't doing it with 2011 SP1, having just installed SP2 ALL of them are doing it now!


Scott Moyse
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Design & Manufacturing Technical Services Manager at Cadpro New Zealand

Co-founder of the Grumpy Sloth full aluminium billet mechanical keyboard project

Message 18 of 25
scottmoyse
in reply to: salsibar

here you go barry http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Inventor/Hotfix-required-for-color-styles-being-reset/td-p/30...


Scott Moyse
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Design & Manufacturing Technical Services Manager at Cadpro New Zealand

Co-founder of the Grumpy Sloth full aluminium billet mechanical keyboard project

Message 19 of 25
salsibar
in reply to: johnsonshiue

Johnson, Any progress on this? Any timeline or idea of when we might see a fix. (even a word that there will be a fix would make me happy right now....) Thanks for any help Barry

Barry Salsi
Project Engineer
Inventor 2012
Windows 7 64, 6gb RAM, Nvidia 4000
Message 20 of 25
scottmoyse
in reply to: salsibar

I have been told its marked for a fix, well my issue anyway, i assume it will fix yours. I created a new thread that i was hoping you would comment on: http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Inventor/Hotfix-required-for-color-styles-being-reset/m-p/305...


Scott Moyse
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EESignature


Design & Manufacturing Technical Services Manager at Cadpro New Zealand

Co-founder of the Grumpy Sloth full aluminium billet mechanical keyboard project

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