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Olets from ANSI CC Library have incorrect QTY value

12 REPLIES 12
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Message 1 of 13
KevinBurrows
1462 Views, 12 Replies

Olets from ANSI CC Library have incorrect QTY value

Hi all,

 

Has anyone else noticed that the olets (weld-olets, sock-olets, thread-olets) that come are in the Inventor 2014 Content Center have an incorrect Quantity value? 

Capture.JPG

 

You can see this if you change the QTY column on the Parts List to show fractions instead of the default.  I'm doing this because Inventor puts total pipe lengths in that column (note the 24 1/2" pipe in the screenshot).  Here's my QTY column settings:

Capture2.JPG

 

Note that Item QTY does not have this issue, so you might say I could use that.  However, it does not show total length of pipe, so I must show QTY column as well.  Having two different quantity columns creates a very confusing Parts List.

 

Does anyone know of a workaround or fix for this?

 

Kevin Burrows

Technical Specialist

ECAD, Inc.

12 REPLIES 12
Message 2 of 13
mercerc
in reply to: KevinBurrows

Looking at the screen shot and trying to reproduce it I noticed you have the Column formatting for QTY set to Apply Units Formatting instead of Use Default Formatting. If you change this back to Use Default Formatting you will see the QTY listed as the total number used.



Charlie M

Inventor Product Support Specialist
Message 3 of 13
KevinBurrows
in reply to: mercerc

Thanks for the reply,

Using Default Units Formatting for the QTY column results in pipe lengths totals being shown using decimal numbers with the units shown on the end.

Default Units.JPG

 

The client wants to see pipe length totals shown using fractional number without the units.  This is the reason to not use Default Units Formatting.

 

I'm not sure where the olets from the Routed Systems.idcl database is even getting it's QTY value.  If I set the QTY column formatting to Decimal with 5 decimal places, you can see the actual value for the olets:

Decimal Units.JPG

 

I have tried opening the family tables, I have tried editing an olet .ipt, but I do not see that value anywhere.  The Document Settings->Bill of Materials tab for any of the olets shows this:

olet BOM.JPG

 

So, it should show a QTY of 1, just like the raised-face weldnecks (RFWN) in my parts list above.  I have tried switching the Base Quantity to another value, saved the part, then switched it back to Each, but the parts list still shows ".03937 in".  I'm beginning to think there is a bug in the olets.  Please advise.

Message 4 of 13
ASI_Aaron
in reply to: KevinBurrows

We've just received the same request from one of our customers.  I don't know what version of IV you are working with Kevin, I'm on 2014 Pro, but I did submit a support case to see if this bug could be looked at.  For right now, I'll just have to override the value in the BOM.  I will report back if I hear anything from AD.

 

 

 

branches_idw_bom.PNG

- Aaron -
PDSU 2016
i7-5820k
Samsung 950 PRO NVMe 512gb
Quadro K4200
32GB RAM
Message 5 of 13
KevinBurrows
in reply to: ASI_Aaron

I'm using Inv Pro 2014 SP1 on Windows 7 64-bit as well.  I've also submitted a case to Autodesk.  mercerc from Autodesk Support responded in the forums and via email (see above), but I haven't heard anything else yet.   

Message 6 of 13
cbenner
in reply to: KevinBurrows

It sounds like what you guys want to have is sort of mixed units.  You need to show actual quantity for the fittings, and length as quantity for the pipe spools.  Is this correct?

 

If so, I don't think you're going to achieve that out of the box without actually manipulating things a bit.  I've had to do something very similar for frames where I want each piece of steel sorted by both part number AND length, while all other items in the BOM are sorted by part number.

 

Try this out, see if it gives you what you're looking for:

 

Choose an iproperty you are not using for anything else (in my case it was Cost Center).  Put your part number in that field in the BOM for your pipe spools.  (this is just for a test at this point).  Now in Part Number use an Expression like =<Cost Center>-<PL>, where PL is the parameter on all pipe spools to denote the total length.  Your part nunber will come out with a combination of the actual part number and the length.  Add Item Qty to your BOM to show the actual part quantities of each component including each unique length of pipe.  Add a custom iproperty column for the PL value so that the length of each unique pipe spool will show up.

 

Now, in your parts list, you can pick and choose from a combination of all of these fields until you get it looking the way you want it to look.  If you format it right you can show the part number, actual quantity, and in it's own column, the cut length for each spool.  Here are some shots of what I quickly threw together just now... hope all of this helps in some way.

 

bom.JPG

 

 

PLIST.JPG

 

I did not sort anything in these examples.  In the parts list I renamed the Cost Center column to Part Number, you could also rename the PL column to Length or something similar.  if all of this works, you can edit your CC family tables for your pipes so that the expression we used above is auomatically generated as you are routing pipes in Inventor.  You can also modify your drawing templates or create a Parts List style that is unique to this situation.

 

I hope that at least this put you on a path....  Good luck!  btw (in my blog is a post where I go into more detail on how I did this for frame members... feel free to take a look).

Message 7 of 13
mercerc
in reply to: KevinBurrows

Cbenner is correct in that I think what you want will not be a out of the box configuration. 

 

In the image here you can see I've included all the QTY options available ITEM QTY would be one I think would be useful in your case. As for the length in fractions. This could be some combination of parameters like cbenner made reference to or just a new column in the parts list called Length or what ever is applicable in your case. This column then could be formatted to use a substitution enabling the existing value of PL (PL is a default parameter given to each tube or structural part from CC or generated in T&P or Frame generator) which will give you the length. YOu can  also format it to use fractional dimensions. This would only list component that have a PL parameter in them the rest would be blank.

 

PL config.jpg



Charlie M

Inventor Product Support Specialist
Message 8 of 13
KevinBurrows
in reply to: mercerc

ChrisB and mercerc,

 

Thanks for the in-depth reply.  The problem is that we're not wanting a pipe cut list.  That will be done using a different Parts List Style.  We want a "totals" or "purchasing" Parts List, similar to what Autodesk Plant 3D makes:

Plant3D.JPG

 

We want a total count of fittings and a total length of pipe for each pipe diameter given in one Part List.  Why not use Plant 3D then?  Because one department designs equipment (which Inventor is good at) that has some piping in it and another department takes our equipment models to places them into the overall plant design (which Plant 3D is good at).  We both use the same purchasing department, so it would be nice if the BOM's listed items similarly.

 
We also tried using Grouping in a Parts List, but that results in multiple Item numbers in one line.  After grouping, you can't apply a static value to that Item Number cell:

Item Numbers.jpg

 

If we use Value Substitution and the Item QTY colmn, as mercerc suggests, then you get confusing results:

ValueSubstitution3.jpg

 

This makes it look like we are wanting 3 pieces of 72" long 4" Schedule 40S pipe.  In reality, we need a 3 pieces, 24" long, which equals a TOTAL of 72"of 4" Schedule 40S pipe.  I suppose we could edit the Parts List at this point and do a Static Override to blank out the Item QTY, but that's a workaround we would have to train every designer on the team to do on every Parts List they create.

 

So, this takes us back to using Part Number Row Merge in the BOM settings.  It will at least give the total length of all pipe of a certain part number in a way similar to Plant 3D.  BUT Inventor sticks that total length in the QTY column.  You're right that this leads to mixed units, but that's where Autodesk programmed the total pipe length to go and they programmed it to display in decimal inches when using Default Formating.  We are just trying to show that value as fractions to match our other company standards.

 

But all of that discussion avoids the root cause of the problem:  Olets that come from the Routing Systems Content Center that ships with Inventor report their QTY to the BOM as ".03937" even though they are set in their ipt files to be counted as "1 Each".  If they reported a QTY of 1, like all the other fittings we've used from CC, this wouldn't be an issue. 

 

Kevin Burrows
ECAD, Inc.

Message 9 of 13
cbenner
in reply to: KevinBurrows

I can't help but think this is getting overly complicated.  Can you post a small assembly and drawing with a few parts in it that shows the problems you are seeing (doesn't have to be anything proprietary) , I'd like to look at how you have your BOM and Parts Lists structured.  I may be able to recommend a structure that gives you what you want without needing any static overrides.  Those should almost never be needed.  It's just a matter of finding the right combination of properties to assemble a BOM that gives you the information you want.  And if all else fails you can probably create some custom properties that do what IV doesn't.

Message 10 of 13
KevinBurrows
in reply to: cbenner

Attached are a couple of zip files containing Pack-and-Go copies of a small pipe run with olets.

Olet_Issue_PN_Merge.zip shows the Parts List with the Unit Formatting applied to the QTY column.  This shows the olets reported as 1/16 instead of 1.

 

Olet_Issue_PN_Merge_w_Value_Sub.zip shows what happens if you try to use Item QTY, add a column for PL, and use Value Substition->Sum of Values.  It looks like I want purchasing to get 2 pipes of 7'-10 15/16" when actually 7'-10 15/16" is the total pipe to be ordered.

 

I know this seems overly complicated.  I'm an Autodesk Certified Instructor, an Inventor Certified Professional, and I've been teaching Inventor for 8 years now.  When my customer first brought this issue to me, I thought "Oh, Inventor can make a parts list do that, easy!"  But the devil is in the details, as they say.  Actually, right now the devil is in the way olets report their quantity to the BOM.  If I could just get an answer as to why olets report their quantities incorrectly, maybe I could come up with a workaround.  Right now, the only thing I know to do is make my own olet CC families from scratch.  But that doesn't help all the other Inventor users who might be using them in their pipe designs.

 

Thanks,

Kevin Burrows

ECAD, Inc.

Message 11 of 13
cbenner
in reply to: KevinBurrows

Hi again, Kevin.

 

Thanks for posting the files.  Sorry, but they're in 2014 and I couldn't open them.  I have a little piping test file of my own that I play around with in 2013, so I inserted some olets of different types and messed around with different BOM and parts list combinations.  I can't seem to duplicate the fractional quantity on my end.  Makes me wonder if it's a 2014 thing?  Have you logged a tech support case for this yet, or just tried my limited knowledge?  I wish I could be of more help.

Message 12 of 13
KevinBurrows
in reply to: cbenner

I still sometimes teach 2013 classes, so I loaded up my Inventor Pro 2013 SP2 Update 4 and tried it there.  If I apply the same unit formatting to the QTY column (see my first post in this thread for how my QTY column is formatted), I get the same issue with the olets:

2013.JPG

 

I've attached a zip containing a pack and go of the 2013 example files I used.  This time, I made 2 different assemblies: in one, I used the Place from Content Center command to simply place the olets and pipe.  In the other, I use the Tube and Pipe environment to create a route, populate it, then add the olets.  I wanted to see if NOT using the Tube and Pipe environment made a difference.  It did not.  

 

I have submitted a case to Autodesk.  mercerc from Autodesk Support has been looking into it and posting in this thread as well, but I haven't heard anything new from Autodesk in a couple of days.

 

Thanks,

Kevin Burrows

ECAD, Inc.

Message 13 of 13
cbenner
in reply to: KevinBurrows

Hi again.

 

Thanks for the 2013 file.  I'm able now to see what you're seeing.  I think when I tried it with my olets, they were custom fititngs we had created here.  With the parts you used, I can clearly see the fractional value you are getting.  What I can't see is... why?!  That makes no sense, and I feel you frustration.  I played around with different columns to see if my other workaround would do anything for you, but it will not show the total length of pipe you need... only the length of that segment.  your fabricators would have to know to look at that AND the Item Qty column in order to get the total.

 

PLIST.JPG

 

So, in other words... you're right... and I can't see any solution for what you want to do until they figure out why these olets are going to a fractional quantity on you!  That's maddeningly strange.  I wish you luck with tech support.  Sorry I couldn't do more.

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