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MDT files with Inventor 2013 - Autodesk's official statement how to proceed?

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Message 1 of 50
sam_m
4962 Views, 49 Replies

MDT files with Inventor 2013 - Autodesk's official statement how to proceed?

I've seen a couple comments on here (and the MDT section) plus Sean Dotson's site regarding MDT (and its files) and Inventor 2013 - due to concerns can we get an official statement from Autodesk how we are meant to manage our old data.

 

From my understanding Inventor 2013 has removed the MDT import optionm, presumably due to the end of MDT's support life - but surely the termination of MDT's support shouldn't terminate Inventor's support of those files?!?

 

To give you some understanding of my concern and reason for questioning - we have been manufacturing products for the last 60odd years, obviously before CAD and MDT, and we have those hand-drawn sketches for ref as/when needed - in the same way we still have our MDT data from the many years we used it prior to Inventor. Once in a blue moon we need to view this old data as components change (or become obsolete) and assess the need to update the product/assembly - if there are any changes then we import into Inventor and work with the data there. Almost as a rolling update as/when needed - and we have been working this way since about Inventor 6, but we still have a LOT of old MDT data that hasn't been converted which we may (or may not) need to access in years to come. Only this year I had some work evaluating updating an old product we've sold since 1998, so I had to go through the history of the product and can you guess what software that data was in?

 

How do Autodesk expect us (and the multitude of similar companies) to be able to access and assess our legacy data in the way we have up until now?

 

Yes, I know we have known for years that MDT was stopping with 2009 and its support would cease 3 years after, but I honestly believe support for MDT does not equal support for MDT files within Inventor.  Inventor is the valid/present software and has had the feature to access MDT data for years - therefore it is part of Inventor's support.  I am fully aware it has required the use of MDT to import data into Inventor but why hasn't there been the incorporation of MDT import into the core Inventor sofware with the termination of MDT support (even if it means a dumbed-down dumb-solids import instead of the full feature-history)? 

 

As far as I understand we are unable to even authorize our MDT2009 software if we needed to re-build a pc tomorrow - is that the case, even if we have had an ongoing subscription from the days of MDT?

 

I am greatful for any official statement/information from Autodesk regarding this. 



Sam M.
Inventor and Showcase monkey

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Message 21 of 50

That question should have been addressed years ago. Not days. Not months. Years. I knew Waldenbooks / Borders was going out of business but yet I never quite made it there to spend my $10 gift card. How to proceed?


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Message 22 of 50

Hi TravisNave,

The question is how to proceed today. We get your point about how it should have happened, and what you think others should have done.

 

If you don't have something to contribute on that matter of how to proceed going foward, that's quite alright. But please allow the discussion to continue in that direction without feeling the need to be inflammatory, nonconstructive, or at odds with the aim of helping MDT users who are looking for answers about how to proceed going foward from today.

 

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com


Message 23 of 50

The point is, there are a few procrastinators left who waited well past the last minute and only now scramble for a solution to something that had been in the community since Inventor 5. Are we going to have this same conversation when in a few short years there is no installation support for Autodesk 2015 on Windows XP? Microsoft had announced EOL on it awhile back. I am not trying to be inflammatory. It is what it is. The writing has been on the wall. The solution for now is quite simple. Stay on 2012 and be left behind.


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Message 24 of 50

I was going to suggest the MDT enabler for plain AutoCAD, but that stops at 2009 as well.  The whole timing of Windows 7 plus 64 bit issues didn't help much either, IMHO.

 

I honestly can't remember: *was* there an official, official Autodesk announcement *before* MDT stopped even being shipped with Inventor or did they just leave it to the VARs to pass along the word?  I searched a bit on the Autodesk website, but found nothing - if they have an archive of press releases, it ain't very obvious.  Plus: eliminating MDT on the main support page feels more like revisionist history.  Yes: no longer supported, but would it kill them to actually say that on a web page, along with what is and isn't possible as 'work arounds'?  I guess they're like certain ardent supporters: the past doesn't matter.  Ever.

KState92
Inventor Professional 2020
AutoCAD Mechanical 2022.0.1
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit - 1903
Core i7-8700 32 GB Ram
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Message 25 of 50
TravisNave
in reply to: kstate92

Yes it was announced in 2008 and the registered Subscription manager should have received an email from Autodesk on October 7th, 2008.

 

Autodesk has terminated development of Autodesk® Mechanical Desktop® and will no longer release new versions of the product. This decision was made to allow Autodesk to focus on the development of the Autodesk® Inventor® and AutoCAD® Mechanical product lines.   As a result of this decision, Mechanical Desktop 2009 becomes the last version of the product to be made available.   Autodesk recognizes that our customers have created many Mechanical Desktop files containing their intellectual property. To protect this data, Autodesk is taking the following actions:  

 

  • In accordance with section 2.2.3 of the Subscription Terms and Conditions, Autodesk Support will continue to provide product support for Subscription customers for a period of no less than three years after the removal of Mechanical Desktop from the Inventor product line.
  •  Autodesk will continue to make Mechanical Desktop 2009 available for download with future releases of Inventor.
  •  Autodesk will continue to support the DWG Import wizard for Mechanical Desktop parts, assemblies and drawings.
  • Despite anything to the contrary in our Subscription terms and conditions or our license agreement(s), Autodesk will allow customers the right to continue using earlier versions of Mechanical Desktop with Inventor releases.

For additional information, please contact your reseller.

 

Thank you for choosing Subscription for your Autodesk products.

 

Sincerely,

The Autodesk Subscription Team



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Message 26 of 50
mflayler2
in reply to: TravisNave

Well looks like I have some good news.  I spent a hour today after work trying to see about different translation paths...and it appears the code for MDT translation is still in 2013 as long as I have MDT2009 also loaded.

 

So this still doesn't solve issues if a user cannot license or drop licensing of MDT at any time, but it looks like it still installs and runs alongside 2013.  In a previous build of Inventor I had on my machine it wasn't in there and now it is!  For all intents and purposes it looked like it was gone, but sure enough...

 

6-7-2012 6-21-27 PM.png

 

6-7-2012 6-18-25 PM.png

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Message 27 of 50


@TravisNave wrote:
The point is, there are a few procrastinators left who waited well past the last minute and only now scramble for a solution to something that had been in the community since Inventor 5. Are we going to have this same conversation when in a few short years there is no installation support for Autodesk 2015 on Windows XP? Microsoft had announced EOL on it awhile back. I am not trying to be inflammatory. It is what it is. The writing has been on the wall. The solution for now is quite simple. Stay on 2012 and be left behind.

 

Hi TravisNave,

 

That is your point. You've made it over and over.

 

The point others have tried to explain, is that it is not always a matter of procrastination or laziness or however you might wish to characterize it. It's often a matter of circumstance. So however people have arrived here, there is a need to know how to proceed.

 

Would you be able to offer some advice as to how you would move forward if for instance the company you work for acquired a firm that had 7000 MDT files, and you were assigned the responsibility of ensuring those acquired files were useable going forward?

 

Would you offer the VP of operations some folksy wisdom of the ant and the grasshopper but no other help? Smiley Wink

 

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com


Message 28 of 50
mflayler2
in reply to: mflayler2

Looks like you might have to have Inventor 2012 loaded as well.  It seems MDT still looks for the Inventor 2012 software during installation even though it works with 2013 after install.

Did you find this reply helpful ? If so please use the Accept as Solution or Kudos button below.

Mark Flayler - Engagement Engineer

IMAGINiT Manufacturing Solutions Blog: https://resources.imaginit.com/manufacturing-solutions-blog

Message 29 of 50
TravisNave
in reply to: sam_m

Yes, in fact. Because, like many others who dealt with this years ago, would be proactive. I know of companies with over 10k drawings who took as long as 2 years to convert everything. But they were proactive. Maybe hire another engineer. Or a college student. Or hire interns for work experience. And train the existing staff of new platforms so that not one more MDT file was saved in 2007 format - thus creating even more work down the road. I would not have procrastinated for half a decade until it was already too late. If that's not procrastination, what is?


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Message 30 of 50
TravisNave
in reply to: sam_m

@Mark - Keep in mind that your solution only works for stand-alone licensing because the NLM Subscription license no longer has support for 2009 products for 2013 releases. Furthermore, you would be in violation of the EULA for previous version use.


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Message 31 of 50


@TravisNave wrote:
That question should have been addressed years ago. Not days. Not months. Years. I knew Waldenbooks / Borders was going out of business but yet I never quite made it there to spend my $10 gift card. How to proceed?

Hi TravisNave,

 

We don't know the circumstance that lead to the files being MDT at this point. It doesn't even matter. In the scenario I put forth your company purchased another and inherited the files. You've been tasked with fixing the problem not passing judgment about the cause. The people you work for speak in terms of solutions. Do you have one?

 

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com


Message 32 of 50
mflayler2
in reply to: TravisNave

From what I have gathered you could still obtain licensing since you were on subscription at that time.  It may just be that you have to activate the Standalone on the NLM license you had on subscription at that time.  Subscription terms actually grant the usage even if the network licensing doesn't, so it may just mean a reinstall with node locked licenses instead of network licensing.

 

Previous version actually allows you to use a product three years back from the point at which you joined subscription (not based on the current release year).  So if I started subscription in 2009 release year, I actually have the right to still use it as long as I never dropped subscription all the way up to 2013 release year.  If I drop it tomorrow, then I cannot use the previous versions anymore.  True enough that NLN management package license files only support three years back, but as part of your subscription agreement you are allowed one standalone seat per network licensed seat.

 

I have to imagine though that getting that Standalone SN would be like pulling teeth with the Autodesk activation service though.

Did you find this reply helpful ? If so please use the Accept as Solution or Kudos button below.

Mark Flayler - Engagement Engineer

IMAGINiT Manufacturing Solutions Blog: https://resources.imaginit.com/manufacturing-solutions-blog

Message 33 of 50
TravisNave
in reply to: sam_m

That's all true for prior release, but the licensing allows for the current version and 3 versions back. Thus 2013 and then 2012, 2011, and 2010. The problem is that 2009 is no longer licensed. And the EULA allows you a 120 day grace after upgrading. However, so long as you do not activate 2013, you can maintain your 2012 Subscription rights back to 2009. You can get a stand-alone exception thru your Subscription Center. Might be a good idea, actually.


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Message 34 of 50
sam_m
in reply to: TravisNave

Oo, lots of banter overnight...

 

Travis, have I got it right that you assume those with MDT files (and want continued access to MDT files) are only those who haven't moved over to Inventor long ago?

 

Can you please explain what we've done wrong:

 

I started at this company in 2002 so can't say before that.

We were using MDT and started to learn Inventor with release 6.

We made the official switch to Inventor with approx release 8 so all new work was in Inventor and existing work was either imported into Inventor or updated in MDT depending on the complexity of the change.

With the news of MDT's demise with the 2009 release we changed that to all new work and all updates to be done in either Inventor or vanilla ACAD.

 

So ALL work, whether new product or update of old product (and thus import/conversion of MDT) has been in place for years...   (We kept the vanilla ACAD option for those wanting to use MDT for sketch-heavy things like pcb assembly diagrams, so knocked that on the head and allowed the option of vanilla ACAD to prevent any problems with MDT file-system.)

 

We still have products in production from before 2009 (hell, there's designs from 70s and 80s still being manufactured as they were designed originally) - without an update to their design so they still exist in MDT data (or earlier).

 

I have just done a search for *.dwg on the cad drive and there's 15,119 files - most will have been converted to Inventor but there will still be a LOT of active files that are being manufactured/used today, without any updates to them since their original release.

 

We all know the import process is troublesome at times so a mass migrate would be unwise and thus we've always ruled against it.  Equally due to this we are loathed to update MDT files willy-nilly to Inventor without them being worked on as we would be unable to spend the time analysing them to check how accurately they have been imported - not to mention we would then have files newer than the issue-status on the system which were being used by production...  Due to the necessity of an accurate import (and ideally a decent Inventor file at the end) we wouldn't trust a temp with such work (not that we would have the time to train them in the software or our procedures).

 

We are a team of 5 cad users all working on different projects and all pretty busy, most are brand new products but some are updates to an existing product that would obviously start with an evaluation of the existing design.  This year I had to dig through all the files for a product design in the 80s with a lot of MDT files - had the project been green-lit I would have had to import a lot of them (plastic case mouldings, etc) to use as a foundation for new internals.

 

We knew of the end of MDT and the lack of its support but that shouldn't mean the complete lack of support for its files.

 

To quote your ADSK press statement:

 

" Autodesk has terminated development of Autodesk® Mechanical Desktop® and will no longer release new versions of the product. This decision was made to allow Autodesk to focus on the development of the Autodesk® Inventor® and AutoCAD® Mechanical product lines. As a result of this decision, Mechanical Desktop 2009 becomes the last version of the product to be made available. Autodesk recognizes that our customers have created many Mechanical Desktop files containing their intellectual property. To protect this data, Autodesk is taking the following actions: 

In accordance with section 2.2.3 of the Subscription Terms and Conditions, Autodesk Support will continue to provide product support for Subscription customers for a period of no less than three years after the removal of Mechanical Desktop from the Inventor product line.
Autodesk will continue to make Mechanical Desktop 2009 available for download with future releases of Inventor.
Autodesk will continue to support the DWG Import wizard for Mechanical Desktop parts, assemblies and drawings.
Despite anything to the contrary in our Subscription terms and conditions or our license agreement(s), Autodesk will allow customers the right to continue using earlier versions of Mechanical Desktop with Inventor releases.

For additional information, please contact your reseller.

Thank you for choosing Subscription for your Autodesk products.

Sincerely,
The Autodesk Subscription Team

 

Does that not suggest they would keep supporting the MDT DWG files and "continue support" for the MDT import tools?  So, if they have previously chosen to use MDT for file import and they were removing MDT then surely it would suggest a requirement for a self-contained MDT import within Inventor - you know, to "continue support" for the DWG import wizard.

 

It's frustrating as there was much press about the recent import tools allowing Inventor to import other cad software painlessly (and without needing it installed), so why would it be too much to ask for a similar import tool for ADSK's own legacy data???

 

So, tell me, how have we done anything wrong?  Or, do I need to create a humorous image to help you understand that it's not a case of luddites set in their ways desperate to keep playing Elite on their ailing BBC B Micro because the new world of colourful graphics scares them?  We are just concerned over the long-term support of our old data and how we might be able to access it in future.



Sam M.
Inventor and Showcase monkey

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Message 35 of 50
TravisNave
in reply to: sam_m

Autodesk Support will continue to provide product support for Subscription customers for a period of no less than three years after the removal of Mechanical Desktop from the Inventor product line.

 

Thus, support for MDT has ended under Subscription for 2013.

 

As for your other questions, you have answered them yourself within the details.  Good luck! 



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Message 36 of 50
kstate92
in reply to: TravisNave

I think the thing we mere mortals with our grasshopper brains can't understand is why you are so passionate about a subject that does not affect you directly whatsoever, given that you apparently migrated all your MDT data back when Inventor was a clasified project named Rubicon.  All I can come up with is straight-up Shadenfruede.

KState92
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AutoCAD Mechanical 2022.0.1
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Message 37 of 50

Well, just like Tough Noogies up there, I too have no skin in this game as I have zero MDT files of my own.

I may however encounter them every once in a while tough, as supplied drawings from my customers for manufacturing purposes, above whom I have no control.

Nonetheless....

Since Mr  Travis has all the useful answers here, perhaps he can share his thoughts on this part of his own quote from the Adesk notice:

 

"""

 

  •  Autodesk will continue to make Mechanical Desktop 2009 available for download with future releases of Inventor.
  •  Autodesk will continue to support the DWG Import wizard for Mechanical Desktop parts, assemblies and drawings.
  • Despite anything to the contrary in our Subscription terms and conditions or our license agreement(s), Autodesk will allow customers the right to continue using earlier versions of Mechanical Desktop with Inventor releases.

"""

 

My take - and I must confess to have absoluetly zero experience in legal matters - is as follows:

a:  MDT v2009 will be available for download indefinitely

b: All future releases ( of Inventor ) will have the ability to import legacy MDT files.

c: Regardless of licensing agreements, all versions of MDT will be licensable and functional indefinitely for cutsomers with a valid Inventorlicense.

 

 

 

Message 38 of 50
TravisNave
in reply to: acad-caveman

All of these are predicated on the statement preceding about support being extended under Subscription for 3 years.  Thus there is none starting for release 2013 as previous indicated by Autodesk. 



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Message 39 of 50
sam_m
in reply to: TravisNave

In accordance with section 2.2.3 of the Subscription Terms and Conditions, Autodesk Support will continue to provide product support for Subscription customers for a period of no less than three years after the removal of Mechanical Desktop from the Inventor product line.
Autodesk will continue to make Mechanical Desktop 2009 available for download with future releases of Inventor.
Autodesk will continue to support the DWG Import wizard for Mechanical Desktop parts, assemblies and drawings.
Despite anything to the contrary in our Subscription terms and conditions or our license agreement(s), Autodesk will allow customers the right to continue using earlier versions of Mechanical Desktop with Inventor releases.

 

read it again mate.

 

I read is as separate statments - the first being the 3 yr support after MDT is removed from the Iv package

The others suggest a continued (no time-frame) download-option, DWG import support and Iv support. 



Sam M.
Inventor and Showcase monkey

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Message 40 of 50
TravisNave
in reply to: sam_m

You do not understand how legal is written.  In accordance with the EULA, Autodesk will provide Subscription support for the product for no less than 3 years (the term of Subscription) and given that time frame, the following is true.  However, no guarantees are made following the dictated time frame. Thus once Subscription has ended for the period of the three years per the 2013 release, those options prerequisite to the Subscription support no longer apply.  Subsequently, that is how it currently works. 



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