IV2012 - Bolted Connection DA and Clearance.xls

[tdswanson]

Hey guys:

When I use the DA to generate a bolted joint that utilizes flat head cap screws (English, 82 deg), the countersunk hole is not large enough and it leaves the heads sticking out slightly proud of the surface.  Most of the time when I use FHCS fasteners, the heads must be below flush.

So I went into the Clearance.xls file and increased the diameter values for the 82 degree holes.  However, it doesn't appear that the DA actually pulls its hole data from this file.  I saved the XLS file, closed it, closed IV, retarted IV, deleted the old DA assembly and started over.  And I still got the same undersized hole.

However, I did verify that if I just place a HOLE on that point and set the hole as countersunk and clearance for that size of fastener, it will use the hole size that I specified in Clearance.xls.

Does anyone have any info about this or tips?

Thanks!

[Jon.Dean · Accepted solution]

I have a feeling that the data comes from the XML files stored in the following location:

C:\Users\Public\Documents\Autodesk\Inventor 2013\Design Data\Design Accelerator\Tables\Holes

I will double check and confirm.

Jon.

[jdavis417]

Solution??? What solution??

Extended question... I've edited Clearance.xls.  Does it somehow generate the .xml (Ansi Unified Screw Threads.xml for instance)?  If so, when?

Thanks in Advance,

John

[tdswanson]

Don't really know how this has been marked as Solved....

Anyway, I never found out any more info on this.  Usually what happens now is that I added a bolted connection with a FHCS in it and move on.  Then at some point later, I notice the screws are sticking up above flush and then go back into the Design Accelerator and increase the diameter of the countersinks.

I'd love to see a solution to this problem......  Really....  Who puts a flat head screw in with the assumption that the head will be above flush?

[Cadmanto]

It almost seems to me like this might be a pathing issue.  Meaning that

it would appear that where ever the hole data is being pulled from it is not communicating with Inventor.

Another thought that comes to mind is if this issue is not repeatable then could this be an install issue.

[tdswanson]

Cadmanto -

The issue is repeatable and does not appear to be a pathing issue as far as I can tell.

If I add a simple hole to a plate (IPT) file, say a clearance hole for a 1/4" 82 degree FHCS, the diameter of the countersink will be 0.531", which is what I entered into Clearance.xls.  Just as it should be.

However, if I go to the assembly for the same plate, and create a bolted joint through the design accelerator, the countersunk hole for the same screw will be diam 0.507" and the head will be sticking just proud of flush.

If I recall correctly, I was running IV2012 when I originally posted this.  Now I'm running IV2013 SP1 and the issue is unchanged.  I'm no expert but doesn't this rule out an install issue?

Someone above suggested that the data for the Bolted Joint DA actually pulls from an XML file and NOT Clearance.xls.  Is this correct?

Thanks!

[Cadmanto]

Hmmm,

The only way I can see if this rules out an install issue is if you did a clean uninstall of 2012 and a clean install of 2013.

If this was not done I have seen cases (in other softwares as well) where things are written to the registry and kept from version to version.

Is there anyway you can post your files here?

[tdswanson]

Sure, later on this AM I'll draw up some simple plates and put some sketch points in.  I'll post the files WITH and WITHOUT holes so that others can add the holes on their systems and see if they observe the same behavior.

Thanks!

[Jon.Dean]

It seems to be an issue with the ANSI Imperial Standard. I did not find a problem with Metric ISO and DIN.

I will log the issue with development to get this fixed.

If you look to the location I mentioned in my previous entry and open the "Ansi Unified Screw Threads.xml" file, you will see the Clearance for a 1/4" Screw is 0.5070 in and the Countersink angle is 82 degrees.

So my theory was correct and Design Accelerator ignores the Clearance.xls file and uses its own standard.

Jon

[tdswanson]

Very good, thanks.  Can I edit the XML file in the meantime?

[Jon.Dean]

Definately worth experimenting with, but please make sure you keep a backup.

I use an XML Editor, which makes it a bit easier to manage.

Jon.

[BLHDrafting]

While not a permanent fix I just edi the created hole (in the Design Acc) and change the Tyoe from Normal to Custom and then change the C'Sink Diameter. See graphic below.

[Jon.Dean]

So, there we have it; two solutions.

Hopefully at some stage DA will use the same data sheets used by all other functions.

I think we can say this issue is now closed.

Jon.

[tdswanson]

I too have done this many times.  However, in a large assembly with a lot of joints, that's a huge number of extra clicks.  And for me, I use hole tables on my drawings a lot.  So if you don't manually enter the exact same size hole each time, they won't group together in the table, which can cause lost time in the shop if it's no caught by the detailer.

Normally, my work flow for these is to create a bunch of these joints and forget to change the diameters, then have to go back into them all and manaually change the holes because I'm resting on the surface in question.  This can, at times, be a major pain and it would be much handier for the user if the DA pulled from the same data table as putting a standard hole in.

Am I wrong?

Thanks for looking into this.  In the mean time, I'm going to be looking to edit the XML file as a permanent fix.

[tdswanson]

OK - So I have "customized" this problem away by editing the XML file for the Design Accelerator.  Here's what I did:

1.  Make a backup copy of and edit the Clearance.xls file for "regular" holes placed in an IPT file.  I usually increased the diameter by anywhere from 0.005" to 0.015" and that would normally do it.  Keep this window open.

2.  Open a window to:

C:\Users\Public\Documents\Autodesk\Inventor 2013\Design Data\Design Accelerator\Tables\Holes

Copy and paste the original file called Ansi Unified Screw Threads.xml.  I renamed the copy to "Ansi Unified Screw Threads.xmlDEFAULT".  This is the backup of your original.

3.  Right click on the original, choose "Open With" and choose Notepad.  Scroll down or search until you find data that has a field called "HeadDiam".  These are the numbers to change to match your data in Clearance.XLS

4.  Once you've edited the file, you'll have to do a SaveAs.  As I understand it, you can't overwrite the original with the XML format.  So I saved mine as Ansi Unified Screw Threads temp.xml.  Then you delete the original file (you still have your backup from above), and remove the "Temp" from this file name.

And there you go.  Now as long as your data from the two sources match, all your flat heads will be below flush.

[jdavis417 · Accepted solution]

I am going to try to summerize this... there really is a soluton hidden in these posts!

• There are two files that control default hole sizes provided by Inventor commands.

• Clearance.xls is used by the Hole command.  You can directly edit this file with a spreadsheet program.

• The DA Bolted Connection command uses the several, standard specific, .xml files located in <<Design Data<< Design Accelerator << Tables<< Holes.  These files can be edited with Notepad or an xml editor.

Why Clearance.xls doesn't GENERATE the various .xml fies?

[candcroberts]

I need an additional XML table with our company standards for the clearances, I have created this by copying the existing ANSI table , but this has a line which has an internal table reference number, how can this number be determined please