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@jgmcguffey wrote:From an academic point of view I agree with you about constraints..In the real world we don't have time. I rarely used constraints in MD and I am forced to use them in 2012 inventor because the drawing tools are so primative. It is very costly for a company needing to make a profit. I appreciate your assistance and I will stand by my original statement and suggest that autodesk improve the drawing tools so that they function as expected.
Keep in mind, some of your assembly constraint issues may be that features you created that are 'close enough' (the trim / tangent issue) aren't 'close enough' for the assembly algorithym to solve, or solve in a manner to guarantee stability.
If you put back my classic interface I will take on this...
But with this new interface no one is fast the software slows a good user down..
I seen my production go from 100% to 50% because of all the crap. (lucky I don't design much anymore)
My clients are even thinking of going back to 2D autocad. One client had an autocad designer and an Inventor Designer (with new Interface) work on the same project. Autocad won by 2 days.... I did the same project with old interface and beat the autocad by 4 days....
I don't care for rendering so take it out and use Max or Viz for that just make a better link I mean come on the software is both Autodesk I can't believe they can't get a real link to work.
Before they did all this I could start Inventor and make 20 parts before this new interface and crap they added even started..
WAKE UP AUTODESK...........
you have been drinking to much of that odumber cool aid.......
Coming from a Solidworks background, the most striking thing I notice about using Autodesk Inventor is that it seems cumbersome to do tasks that are quite simple in SolidWorks. I know they both just have different approaches to completing tasks, but it is not an easy transition from Solidworks. There seems to be a lot of steps involved in completing tasks, and inflexibility in basic functionality. Like selecting reference geometry in top-down modeling (i.e. working part models within assemblies) And very basic things like when creating a sketch that is within a part (on a mid plane) the sketch lines are not visible. you have to section the part.
In solidworks whatever sketch you are working on, the sketch lines are brought to the forefront and they are visible through the part or assembly. That is probably the most annoying lack of functionality that Inventor does not seem to have.
I also find an unusual amount of lag between commands and a significant delay in executing the commands like constraints. Now this can be hardware related. But I believe this is a software issue.
The feature tree, seems to move features around through association rather than hierarchy. This I find makes it less flexible in editing and rolling back the feature tree.
Configuration is not in any way user friendly. While Iparts is indeed powerful it is also painful and not quick in suppressing and unsurprising features and properties for individual configurations. Again, I suppose a well versed Inventor user would not see this as a problem. But again, I am using both right now and I can see a very clear distinction between ease of use.
I do like the materials and material properties functionality. very quick to apply in inventor. I also like the navigation box in the corner. But I do not like the fact that there is no default rotate in on the middle mouse button. Pan and zoom is ok, but I have found when modeling in my 15+ years that I rotate zoom in on model far more frequently than pan. The fact that Autodesk has not fixed this by now is obsurd. I do like the infinite space Inventor offers. This is good for applications beyond product design, such as construction site projects. Believe it or not Solidworks actually has a dimensional limit in their 3d space (or at least they did a couple of iterations ago).
Constraining sketches and parts is far less flexible than Solidworks. Solidworks offers greater options for constraining (or mating) than inventor to planes, and origin, in both part sketch and assembly modes. Again, this is a big one.
The interface for constraining models in Inventor is ok, but cumbersome. It does have some nice options, but is just too slow compared to SolidWorks.
In my years as a 3D cad user I have had the opportunity to use several different platforms, all of which have their strengths and weaknesses. But with Autodesk Inventor, the main strength it has, ironically is not Inventor alone rather the Product Design packages. Autodesk just offers greater file compatibility between software and this is big advantage others do not have. I need to be able to engineer the product, visualize it, render it, modify the rendered image files. And even animate it models. All of which is possible with Autodesk Product Design.
I have had it operating as part of a company I am developing, while I still use Soldiworks for my paying job. So I get to use both. I really want to like Inventor, I keep hoping for a reboot of its basic operation. But year after year it lets me down, with it very cumbersome interface. That takes up valuable time.
If Autodesk was smart they would try to closer emulate the interface of Soldiworks, or at least try to make it more intuitive, and faster.
My comments may get brushed off as just a solidworks guy griping, but I am also an Autodesk customer, and I have used a variety of software platforms to compare against.
A couple of last points, I could list a whole pile more of recommend enhancements. But I recognize the many perhaps are just things that have solutions and I am unaware of. But having used it for some time now, I feel these functionalities if present should be easily found and intuitive, like in solidworks. It is also my observation that Solidworks seems to really care what their users think and they are eager to want feedback and enhancement requests regarding the software itself. Autodesk to me seems to not have that personal interest, and it feels unreachable nor interested in what their competition provides and their users really need to be on par.
I hope these comments are not viewed as purely critical. I think Inventor has huge potential. But I just still have a hard time getting behind it.
If there are companies that for some reason need to use your MDT files and do not have a working MDT conversion process in place I bet are having loads of fun using those files today.
I know I do where I work as there are a few files out there that every now and then come into play. We seem to have a somewhat reliable conversion process in place for MDT part files, but assemblies are useless today since we don't have MDT 2009 installed anywhere and most of those files were last saved in something previous to 2009.
We really need a "blog" for these types of posts - so people that come here looking for solutions to issues and not be distracted by this.
Each software has it's pros and cons. It seems the trick is if someone is able to adapt their computer pc usage skills to use the software (any software) efficiently.
"Each software has it's pros and cons. It seems the trick is if someone is able to adapt their computer pc usage skills to use the software (any software) efficiently."
Adaption sure!....I adapt to a variety of 3D modeling software Solidworks, NX, Inventor, Pro E, MDT...but what is reasonable. Statements like what you made are meant to try and deflect a criticism of the software onto the user themselves. I don't own shares in Desault or Autodesk the only bone I have in this is my own productivity. And all I can compare it to is other software. The problem I see is Autodesk is in a great position to have a kick a** product. But they don't lead the market place. The question is why. could it be that people just find it cumbersome compared to other software. Sure all software has "pro's and con's" but regardless the perception is that Inventor regrettably has more con's than pro's when comparing it to its nearest competitor. And when I read statement likes the above, I get the distinct impression that Autodesk is surrounded by sycophant users that are unwilling to consider outside opinion, to the detriment of product development. The proof is in the sales. If this was year 1- 5 of the product I would give them the benefit of the doubt. But it is not, and it is not catching on. And I think when your market is dominated by users in Solidworks, and you are reliant in taking back market share you cannot afford to dismiss Solidworks users and their perceptions of Autodesk Inventor. Because essentially what you are saying is that it is not the fault of the software but the user. Well where is the growth in user going to come from? More times than not it will come from taking business back from Soldiworks, And you have to win them over.
Autodesk is big, but they don't in anyway dominate the 3D cad market. For a long time they have been relying on just pulling new customers in from old 2D AutoCAD markets. That market is shrinking. And Desalt has already taken the wind out of the sails on that one too. They offer free 2d CAD . The company I work for has not upgraded AutoCAD since 2006, and they have no plans to now. They are buying more Solidworks and using the free Draftsight. If I were Autodesk I would immediately make AutoCAD LT free...then that might stop the bleeding, I would then try to better emulate Solidworks in its interface to make the transition an easier one for prospective Solidworks users. Because right now Solidworks is an easy sell.
my 2 cents.
"We really need a "blog" for these types of posts - so people that come here looking for solutions to issues and not be distracted by this."
I don't think anyone going to a post "Autodesk Sucks" is looking for solutions. They are going to ther to express their disattisfaction.
A post Autodesk would be mistakent to dismiss or ignore.
I'm sure no expert (though MDT was far too crashy in my experiences), but this line caught my eye:
To pick internal part in assy you have to move all obstructed parts away just to get to needed one.
Assuming you know the part you want, right-click in the browser tree and pick Isolate. Afterwards, right-click in view and pick Undo Isolate.
If you don't know the name of the part you want, either Section thru the assembly, pick the part and right-click > Isolate or switch to wireframe view and hover / scroll wheel until the desired part highlights then Isolate.
To rotate a highlighted part: G; to move a highlighted part: V. Then Update to re-assemble.
@_DanSolo_ wrote:
Statements like what you made are meant to try and deflect a criticism of the software onto the user themselves.
If that is what you or others interpete, so be it.
I don't know how many come here to vent, rant, etc. but when a topic appears as such it's ignored by some, myself included.
I am not going to get into any discussion about this sort of thing. Was mearly adding my 2 cents worth that posts like this I feel should be somewhere else so this forum can be used to solve problems. When problems are included in "rants" they tend to go unnoticed.
Carry on.
@_DanSolo_ wrote:
I also find an unusual amount of lag between commands and a significant delay in executing the commands like constraints. Now this can be hardware related. But I believe this is a software issue.
The feature tree, seems to move features around through association rather than hierarchy. This I find makes it less flexible in editing and rolling back the feature tree.
Configuration is not in any way user friendly. While Iparts is indeed powerful it is also painful and not quick in suppressing and unsurprising features and properties for individual configurations.
I agree with everything in this post but especially this. The lag is so annoying. Seems like the code is just very inefficient. Other applications are not like this.
exactly, how does one improve a product if you are unaware of your shortcomings.
I am not sure who said it, but the "head in the sand" is a pretty good analogy.
I don't consider these comments to be a "rant" but rather a general opinion of the program as a whole.
Specific points and questions are better suited in their relevant topics.
But the impression I am getting here is that there is great reluctance in listening to critical comments. As I pointed out. I use both now.
I just want Inventor to be the best, as I think it and other Autodesk software has the best potential to cover all my CAD and design needs.
This thread is pretty entertaining. I don't "bash" or "hate" any one program. I've primarily used Inventor during my short 3 years in the industry and still am today. I hear many complaints from my co-workers and from others alike about how Inventor does this, doesn't do that, or is screwed up in some way. I'll say this, most of the issues people have (even my co-workers) are avoidable. Generally it's a user error. They create models in such a way that slows down their machines or causes crashes or whatever problem they may be complaining about.
Every now and then, yes, there's a bug. Inventor is not perfect. Find me a software that is bug-free and I'll promptly slap you across the face because you're dreaming.
To those who say "Oh I used Solidworks (or any other software) for X number of years and it was way easier to do this and took way less time to do that", it's because YOU were more efficient in that software. If YOU take the time to learn how to use Inventor efficiently, you may be able to do things just as quickly or faster or (if somehow the problem is the tool not the user) it may still be slower.
If you took a man who had drawn by hand for 15 years (and was good at it) and sat him down in front of a computer and introduced him to 3D parametric modeling, he'd probably hate it. His first inclination would likely be to go back to his drawing board. He'd probably say something like,"I can draw this much faster with a pencil and paper". Because that's what he's good at and it takes time to learn something new. Many of you would agree when I say that he would be making a mistake.
While that is a broad example and in our case, some other software may actually be "quicker" or more reliable depending on what you're doing, my point stands that 9 times out of 10 it's a user error and not a software problem. People tend to be too stubborn to take a little extra time to learn something fully that might save them time later.
I'll end it here. I could go for days. 🙂 Have a wonderful day everyone.
regarding whether or not these types of posts should be in the spot light, ie, not hidden...don't assume Autodesk is reading this.
I can repeat what I've said many times but I'll shorten it - the forums are for end users to communicate with each other and not for an end user to communicate directly with Autodesk.
While I don't have a link handy, there is a link where you can go post about bugs/whatnot.
Good luck.
I started on a board.
I then started on CadKey
I then started on AutoCad
I then started on MDT
I then started on Solidworks
I then Started on Inventor
I then Started on NX
I have lots of experience transitioning to different platforms.
It is not a mere issue of preferences or being used to it. You could argue that by perhaps from a casual user. But that is not the case.
Sure you can cut your lawn with scissors a weed whacker, push mower, or lawn tractor. There are lots of ways to do things...that is not the point. The point is the ease of use. And there are huge gaps between what are supposed to be close competitors.
Devil his due: I'm betting those folks proficient at IV or SW that then were forced to become proficient at the other, could come up with a list of strengths / weaknesses of both. What would be very beneficial to all would be reviewing the non-partisan common consensus within that list. Shame that's unlikely to happen in any public forum.
I just saw this thread get bumped here and I know it's gone way off topic, but, to chime in:
I have an intern that was working on a network license. He would create view reps of our designers models, detail them in idw's and then when him or another person would open them the details where there but the view reps where not and the error messages would fly. At first I blamed new user error and not saving properly but I watched him work, save correctly, and then I tried opening it myself as a test and got the missing view reps errors. This would happen over 50% of the time.
We bought him a full seat and got him of the network license and the problem went away.
inventor 2014, sp1. update 3.
Our problems went away but it looks like part or most of this problem existed back in 2008.
I started on a board. 1975
I then started on CADKey 1987
I then started on AutoCAD 1994
I then started on MDT 2000
I then started on SolidWorks 2001
I then Started on Inventor Feb 2002
I then Started on Creo (now, Pro/E then) 2007
I have lots of experience transitioning to different platforms.
If you want constructive solution - start a new thread for each issue and we can discuss one-by-one.
I will start with SolidWorks, Inventor or Creo - this is the 21st century - get yourself a 3D Connexion Space Navigator.
The CADWhisperer YouTube Channel
When you say casual user, are you differentiating between casual and professional? If so, I'd probably argue that the casual user has a less difficult time adjusting to new software rather than a professional. I feel like a professional user has been performing a set of tasks with a certain method for longer time and is less likely to want to adapt to new methods.
To your ease of use point, I feel like I would need to try my hand at some of these other softwares to really see what the differences are. I've used a few others (Solidworks, AutoCAD, SketchUp, and I've dabbled in a few more) and I'll say that they have their strengths but there are still things about them that I don't prefer. However, there's a part of me that understands that my lack of knowledge of the software may actually be the issue. For example, I don't like how Solidworks does it's model orientation. I don't like that if I view the front face, I cannot select to view that face, then rotate the model upside down. but still be normal to that face. However I would venture to say that (especially now) there may be a tool that does that in Solidworks that I am unaware of. This would mean that the software was never the problem. And who knows, maybe Solidworks does have that tool AND it works better than the one in Inventor. Point is, my lack of knowledge makes Solidworks more difficult for me to use. It has nothing to do with Solidworks itself.
By the way, I admire that you've been at it for so long and have made it through so many changes. I acknowledge that my own lack of experience in the industry may skew my opinions on the topic. I just work with people who have been doing this much longer than I have and they 'll complain about the software on a regular basis but, as previously stated, it's a lack of knowledge that is causing them issues, not the software itself. Including issues with ease of use.