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How to model ACM sheet metal

22 REPLIES 22
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Message 1 of 23
M_Dyer
6985 Views, 22 Replies

How to model ACM sheet metal

Or Alpolic panels.  Very thin gauge aluminum sheets with a composite sandwiched between them.

 

The challenge is, the panels are relatively thick, 3mm or 4mm, but a router is used on the fold lines before bending to cut through all but the outer aluminum.  This makes for a very tight bend radius.

 

So, thick 3 layer material, tight bend with mitered corners.  Can Inventor's sheet metal tools handle this?  Or does anyone have tips for modeling this in Inventor?

22 REPLIES 22
Message 2 of 23
JDMather
in reply to: M_Dyer

Do you really need the detail of the center material - or can simple color band for the composite work?
You might be able to use some sheet metal functionality, but probably Bend Part.

Are you looking for Inventor to calculate the flat pattern for you?
Do you need the flat pattern?
Or do you only need the finished folded form?

 

Any pictures of a finished part?

Example ipt files that you have already attempted?


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Message 3 of 23
spoine
in reply to: M_Dyer

Hi

 

I would like to add some more information regarding what M_Dyer has asked, as I too would like to be able to create these ACM flat patterns in Inventor.

 

The reason being is that when I need to create a complex panel that has different angles, mitered corners etc I have been drawing up a 3D model of the final folded panel and then taking every single measurement from that model and drawing out a flat pattern. Once this has been drawn up I then print out the drawing, cut it out, fold it up and tape it together to see if it actualy works. Very time consuming.

 

This flat pattern once correct, is drawn up, saved as a dxf and then sent of to the router to be cut.

 

Now what M_Dyer was saying about "thick 3 layer material, tight bend" is that the material is 4mm thick but the bend allowance is between 0.5mm & 0.8mm as seen in the attached jpg.

This is something that I havnt been able to do in Inventor.

 

The jpg also shows the steps needed to create the panels that are done by the router. The 90 degree V groove is what is needed to be able to bend up the sides. The 49 dim is assigned as the bend line so when the sides are bent up we get an ovall width of 50mm.

 

Ive also attached a very basic folded up part showing how it looks when complete.

 

So if there is a way to create these flat patterns in Inventor, it would save alot of time.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Spoine
3D Modeling
Product Design

Windows 7 Professional x64
Dell Precision T3500
2.80 GHz Xeon 12 GB RAM
Quadro FX 1800

Message 4 of 23
blair
in reply to: spoine

You should be able to adjust the K-factor value within the Inventor Sheet-Metal to get the correct bend allowance. You would need to use a couple of test strips and work backwards to calculate the correct K-factor. The attached spread sheet should help you in the calculation to get the correct flat pattern.

 

Your Inventor model won't have the router cut in it but I think from reading your post, all you really want is the correct flat pattern.


Inventor 2020, In-Cad, Simulation Mechanical

Just insert the picture rather than attaching it as a file
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Message 5 of 23
Allen_Hart
in reply to: M_Dyer

We have used Inventor to model ACM and make accurate flat patterns for our router machine for many years now.

The trick: don't bother trying to model the full thickness - just work with the outer skin.  Treat it like thin gage sheet metal.  Use normal sheet metal commands and bend allowances.

The only downside we've found is that our drawings don't show full thickness in section views, but it's never been a problem for us. 

Allen

 

Message 6 of 23
JDMather
in reply to: Allen_Hart


@Allen_Hart wrote:

 

The only downside we've found is that our drawings don't show full thickness in section views, but it's never been a problem for us. 

Allen

 


You could always edit the drawings manually (AutoCAD style) once the views are created.


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Message 7 of 23
sroegge
in reply to: Allen_Hart

I am in the process of trying to get flat patterns of ACM out of Solidworks, which is somewhat Inventor-Like. The biggest hurdle I've seen is that even when flattening and exporting the shapes the bend lines stop at the corner notch, as opposed to continuing to the end of the panel, which miters the edges of the returns which is necessary for them to come together when folded. Did you find a way to make this happen in Inventor?  I know you can edit and stretch the lines after exporting, but this amounts to redrawing the panel and negates any time savings from using formulas to create them in 3D. Additionally, there does not seem to be any way to assign layers to the flattened panel shapes, which is instrumental in assigning paths for different tools.

 

Thanks, 

BW

Message 8 of 23
Allen_Hart
in reply to: sroegge

BW,

We have not found a way to extend the bend lines out to the end of the panel either. Our CNC guy just edits the exported flat in Autocad as needed before bringing it into Sigmanest. Inventor already puts the line work on different layers, and the CNC software is configured to use them as is. The flat pattern cleanup is a little extra work, but it goes pretty quick.

Sorry I don't have the answer you want.

Allen Hart
CAD Services Manager, SAF Metal Fabrication
8370 Highway 78
Villa Rica, GA 30180
770.942.1207 Ext 417
770.942.4173 Fax
[SAF Metal Fabrication]
http://www.SAF.com
Message 9 of 23
mathew.m.ryan
in reply to: blair

Exactly. I have done this, and was about to comment...

Message 10 of 23
it_was_sam
in reply to: JDMather

please share the details 

i need all the info in the above question you asked

 

Message 11 of 23
JDMather
in reply to: it_was_sam

Attach the files of your attempt here.


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Message 12 of 23
it_was_sam
in reply to: JDMather

its not like that 

i am a new to an industry where they do acp cldding and all

for making unfolded acp cheet i need help with

 

Message 13 of 23
JDMather
in reply to: it_was_sam


@it_was_sam wrote:

its not like that 


How much experience/training do you have with Inventor?

What version of Inventor do you have?


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Message 14 of 23
blandb
in reply to: JDMather

Depending on your version, you can multi body model in the sheet metal environment, so the outside material and inside material can follow 2 different sheet metal rules. Then when you make components, you will get each solid as its own part, then you can flatten each piece.

 

Hope that helps!

Autodesk Certified Professional
Message 15 of 23
johnsonshiue
in reply to: it_was_sam

Hi Folks,

 

I suspect I have heard this request before. It is about the ability to model Inventor sheet metal part in a non-uniform thickness manner. In general, the request violates the Inventor Sheet Metal's preposition: uniform thickness. It is because the objective of using Inventor Sheet Metal workflows is to create the flat pattern with uniform thickness.

However, there is a way to go around it. Basically, you will need to create two sheet metal parts. One is for creating flat pattern and the other one represents the folded part. Here is the workflow.

 

1) Create a the cladding part in uniform thickness.

2) Make a flat pattern. In FP environment, add or remove material accordingly.

3) Derive the cladding part into another sheet metal part.

4) In the folded mode, add or remove material accordingly. This one represents the folded part.

Lastly, you can document the flat pattern from the first part and the folded body from the second part in the same drawing.

Many thanks!



Johnson Shiue (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)
Software Test Engineer
Message 16 of 23
IgorMir
in reply to: spoine

Would the attached file help you to work out your model?

Cheers,

Igor. 

Web: www.meqc.com.au
Message 17 of 23
it_was_sam
in reply to: JDMather

experience over 2 years 

version 2021

 

worked as a software instructor so

quite fond of exploring new things

 

Message 18 of 23
it_was_sam
in reply to: IgorMir

Thank you so much 

 

are you working on the curtain wall industry?

 

 

need some help with acp bending calculationsa and all

 

its like am in charge of producing the cutting list of ACP  for cnc FABRICATION

 

 

Message 19 of 23
IgorMir
in reply to: it_was_sam

No, I am not. But I can give it a shot. 🙂

Where are you located?

Cheers;

Igor.

 


@it_was_sam wrote:

Thank you so much 

 

are you working on the curtain wall industry?

 

 

need some help with acp bending calculationsa and all

 

its like am in charge of producing the cutting list of ACP  for cnc FABRICATION

 

 


 

Web: www.meqc.com.au
Message 20 of 23
it_was_sam
in reply to: IgorMir

help me refold this its not getting stationary reference

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