Forced to check out Subassemblies that I have not changed

[vroomer85]

When working in the top level assembly, Inventor will often force me to check out subassemblies that I have not changed.  Sometimes I am simply moving parts withing the top assembly and Inventor sees changes in several of the subassemblies and ask if I want to check them out.  None of these assemblies are adaptive and the only file I am actually changing is the top level assembly (which is checked out to me).  There are times when all I've done is open the top assembly from the vault and Inventor tells me that I have modified several subassemblies and component files within the subassemblies.  I have not made any modifications since the previous day when I checked in my changes at the end of the day and suddenly I have to check out 10% of the files because I have "modified" them by opening them.  This creates probems with numerous unnecessary versions in the vault and at times problems with subassemblies being checked out by co-workers working on the same machine but a different section.

-Nick

Windows 7 64 bit

Autodesk Inventor 2010 Simulation SP3

[scottmoyse]

I've just let one of the Vault Product Managers know about the new activity on this thread today. I was discussing similar issues with him a few weeks back, and I know they are always chipping away at this issue.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Guys,

The excessive file dirtying behaviors are usually more Inventor related than Vault. There were indeed unnecessary file dirtying behaviors a while back. But, most of them should have been fixed. A few things to note that you may think a given file is not altered or dirtied. Actually, the edit may happen due to various reasons: out-of-context edit, change in parent doc, iLogic rule, mass prop change, computed recomputable change, or corruption. Without seeing a case, it is very hard to comment further.

If you have a case reproducing the behavior, please let send the files to me directly (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com). I would like to understand the behavior better.

Many thanks!

[ChrisMitchell01]

Also, here's a "trick" so you might be able to better understand why things are being requested for check-out, or prompted to save:

• Open you dataset & when it's all loaded, hit the Save button. You will see the usual save dialog with the list of all files requiring a save.
• Then hover over cursor each one that you were prompted to check-out - press CTRL and right mouse click. You will see a diagnostic dialog like this:

The info may not be immediately apparent as this is really dev/qa centric info, but it might help....

Or if you don't want to hit save, then you can get similar info but only for the top level of dataset open by going to the Help, About Inventor dialog. Then press CTRLD - you will see a similar dialog that only relates to the specific file opened.

The good news is that this is indeed something that is being worked on in the current timeframe.

Hope this helps,
Chris

[MrSmithtastic]

That's to all for the info and replies.

Just got into work so I will test a few things and report back to this thread. I had no idea you could see that diagnostic menu so that will be interesting.

At the moment the issue I'm having is with Tube and Pipe assemblies mostly. I do have an add-on that I built a while back and I know we had some issues with that dirtying files for a while but that shouldn't be causing random sub-assemblies to be dirtied, it doesn't work that way.

My templates do have some old iLogic in them that isn't used any more so perhaps it's worth me sorting that out. Though again, the iLogic doesn't work in such a way as to dirty random sub-assemblies or parts.

Oh and we're using 2018 ATM, due to upgrade to 2020 as soon as my company pulls it's finger out and gets someone over from Graitec to do the Vault and Server upgrade. Perhaps 2020 will fix some of these issues?

Also, it's nice to see replies from Autodesk on this thread now. Thanks

[MrSmithtastic]

Just a quick one. Tried this just now and 'Audit' is checked on the files I haven't changed but that Inventor keeps asking me to check out. What is this? Why is this?

[ChrisMitchell01]

My understanding is that this "audit" is related to the way the the assembly BOM info is being generated in the assembly so that it can then be used downstream for the drawing parts-list.

A possible workaround is to open the Assembly BOM & enable the structured BOM view, then save the assembly; don't know if you're in a position to try that...

Thanks,

Chris

[bentbrandt]

Our issue have always been that an assembly and its drawing is copied in vault.

I then check the files out.

When I open the assembly Inventor says "changes have been made etc...." and it needs to update the assembly - when I press ctrld it lists rebuild with a check mark.

The files needing updates are typically from factory files (iassemblies and iparts) not any of the copied ones, and they were up to date when they were checked into the vault (they must be or vault won't accept them)

This has been an issue since before the first post of this thread (2011)

Our last version is 2018

Vault is Vault Basic

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! It could be the cloning process leading to the problem. It is also possible there are issues within the files before cloning happened.

I took a look at James' files yesterday. It was about Adaptive Loop. I cannot show you his files for apparent reason. But, I can describe the behavior. I notice that some of the subassemblies have the following relationship.

Adaptive PartA is adaptive to Adaptive PartB, which is also adaptive to Adaptive PartA.

This mutual dependency can happen if you don't manage the relationship clearly. In theory, this kind of loop is Ok, as long as the change propagate in one direction. However, as the design gets more complicated, the loop can lead to endless update.

To properly update the loop, you will need to start from the subassembly and do Rebuild All. Then go one level up. Or, you need to do Rebuild All at the top level multiple times. Then save all changes.

Please feel free to share an example if you can reproduce the behavior. I still don't believe the issue is Vault related.

Many thanks!

[bentbrandt]

We have never used adaptive features or models, because of the problems they can create like the one you describe.

We have never claimed it to be vault doing something wrong.  As title of thread suggests; if the sound sub assembly is vaulted but not checked out we are sometimes prompted that there have been made changes to it and they show up as needing to be updated. -So we are forced to check it out if we want to apply the update to the model. -Or refresh the model from vault before checking in the finished project.

It may be caused by custom materials applied in a higher level of the assembly, or by viev or LoD representations, or by assembly features like move face or cutouts.

But common for the above is that it happens when the assembly is opened.

-Some feature or view representation calculated in the opening process triggers something to update in a subassembly.

Countless times I have tried to check the files out and update everything, but it still happens.

When moving files to new vaults during the years, everything has been updated and migrated to the new version and then checked into vault. 

[MrSmithtastic]

I'm hoping that my issue has been resolved thanks to Johnson's insight into the way I had created certain parts within one of the sub-assemblies. (Thank you again, Johnson. I'll let you know going forward how I get on with this 'better' working procedure and if I have any other issues.)

I'm still convinced that there are occasions where I don't use adaptive parts and I have still had problems with being asked to check things out that haven't changed, but with the ability to query the save dialogue box now I'm happy that I can at least find out why Inventor thinks things have changed. A lot of the time it is because they want a re-build. So I'm left wondering if it's because things haven't been adequately rebuilt (2 rebuilds before save) before they're checked in to the Vault.

I'm going to monitor my methods a lot more closely going forward and try to work in a more structured way.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Guys,

Adaptive Loop is only one of the possibilities. I have seen LOD related, Derive related, or corruption related behaviors. I am not saying there is no bug in these workflows. I would be silly to claim there are no bugs.

But, each case is somewhat unique. It is very hard to pinpoint the issue without seeing the files. Like James' case, I would not have known it was Adaptive Loop. It is also possible there might be other issues in the files. Generalized issues should not exist though.

Many thanks!

[ckirk]

Has this problem been addressed?

Have read through the discussion history.

We are running Inventor 2018 still (will be migrating shortly)- our team runs into this behaviour all the time. Sometimes it's referenced STP files that it requires us to check out when we are not even doing anything with the sub-assembly that the referenced STP file is used in. Either just opening a parent assembly (sometimes several layers up), or adjusting a constraint in a parent assembly seems to trigger this.

There should not be a trigger to check out a file unless the user intentionally attempts to change the file itself. Maybe on save it could ask if we want to migrate files (if that's what's causing the trigger), but I know most of these files had already been saved previously with the same version of Inventor and it still gets triggered.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! The need to check out is just an indication that the file has been changed and the change needs to be saved. A few things to check. Go to Tools -> App Options -> Save. What are the settings there?

As I mentioned earlier, there are many operations leading to the need to save. As of 2018 (2018~2022.0), measuring in a different precision than Document Settings -> Unit, does dirty the file also. This is due to the change in 2018 to persist measurement precision with document setting.

If possible, please share an example that exhibits the behavior. I can take a look and see if the file dirtying behavior is reasonable.

Many thanks!