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Derived Parameter Limit

11 REPLIES 11
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Message 1 of 12
Anonymous
373 Views, 11 Replies

Derived Parameter Limit

I have a "dummy" part in a directory that is nothing but parameters to be exported. I derive the parameters to part in my assemblies. In another directory I have the same dummy part for its assembly parts. I can create parts that are "linked" to the dummy part and move them back and forth between the directories. The part will change its shape depending on the values in the dummy parts. Up to now this has worked flawlessly.
The latest part I have created has made the quantity of parameters in the dummy parts at 100 parameters. Now when I copy the part from one directory to the other it can't find the parameters it requires, and takes the derived parameters and moves them to User Parameters.
Is 100 the limit for the amount of parameters that can be derived successfully?
If so, is there a work around?
If there is no limit (I Hope!) then what could possibly be the trouble with any new parts I create?
11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi! This is an interesting workflow. I do not believe there is a limit on
how many parameters can be derived. Could you post the files here or send
them to me?
Thanks!

Johnson Shiue
Test Engineer
Autodesk
(email: johnsonDOTshiueATautodeskDOTcom)
wrote in message news:5625433@discussion.autodesk.com...
I have a "dummy" part in a directory that is nothing but parameters to be
exported. I derive the parameters to part in my assemblies. In another
directory I have the same dummy part for its assembly parts. I can create
parts that are "linked" to the dummy part and move them back and forth
between the directories. The part will change its shape depending on the
values in the dummy parts. Up to now this has worked flawlessly.
The latest part I have created has made the quantity of parameters in the
dummy parts at 100 parameters. Now when I copy the part from one directory
to the other it can't find the parameters it requires, and takes the derived
parameters and moves them to User Parameters.
Is 100 the limit for the amount of parameters that can be derived
successfully?
If so, is there a work around?
If there is no limit (I Hope!) then what could possibly be the trouble with
any new parts I create?
Message 3 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Are you moving files into folders that are defined as Library Locations (or
sub folders thereof) in the project file?

QBZ


wrote in message news:5625433@discussion.autodesk.com...
I have a "dummy" part in a directory that is nothing but parameters to be
exported. I derive the parameters to part in my assemblies. In another
directory I have the same dummy part for its assembly parts. I can create
parts that are "linked" to the dummy part and move them back and forth
between the directories. The part will change its shape depending on the
values in the dummy parts. Up to now this has worked flawlessly.
The latest part I have created has made the quantity of parameters in the
dummy parts at 100 parameters. Now when I copy the part from one directory
to the other it can't find the parameters it requires, and takes the derived
parameters and moves them to User Parameters.
Is 100 the limit for the amount of parameters that can be derived
successfully?
If so, is there a work around?
If there is no limit (I Hope!) then what could possibly be the trouble with
any new parts I create?
Message 4 of 12
pkquat
in reply to: Anonymous

I am not sure I follow exactly what you are doing with moving the files and which ones are linked to what, and which ones you move.

In any case, when ever I have changed the source part for a derived part, unless it is identical, IV has tossed the parameters in to the user parameters for the part. Are you sure there is not a some small difference between the two source parts with all the parameters. Sometimes you can get away with it, but other times IV sees enough of a difference to think it is a completely different part.

Example. I had two similar source parts with exported parameters. I made a copy it, and removed an extrusion and added another. Even though this had no effect on any of the previous features or exported parameters, IV thought they were different enough and I couldn't "swap" them.

Pete
Message 5 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks for the response!
I have e-mailed you some files and instructions on how to make the problem occur. My apologies to the rest of you who wish to see this also, but my company would not allow me to post the files.
Message 6 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks for responding!
There are no Libraries in any of the project files.
Message 7 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I appreciate you taking the time to respond!
Just to be sure that the parameter names were the same, and that they did not interfere with a system file name I renamed them multiple times, and copied the names each time to ensure continuity.
I have done this well it's now officially 100 times and this is the first time it hasn't worked.
Interestingly, if I use parameters that are below the 100 mark it works fine.
Message 8 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

If I understand meck correctly, he is using a very dangerous workmethod.

Folderstructure:
C:\Projects\Project A
C:\Projects\Project B

In Project A there's an IPT called "dummy part" which holds the parameters
for his design.
In Project B there's also an IPT called "dummy part", which holds the same
parameters (but with different values) as the "dummy part" in Project A

Now, he creates a part in Project A, derives the parameters from the "dummy
part" (from Project A). Let;s say this part is called "Beam.ipt"

At some time, he moves "Beam.ipt" from Project A to Project B.

When he openes "Beam.ipt" in Project B, he assumes that "Beam.ipt" mappes to
the "dummy part" of Project B.

Now if that's true, you are asking for big, big trouble (see the reply from
Pete)

So...

Why do you have a copy of your "dummy" part? Why do you move files from
Project A to Project B?

--
T. Ham
CAD Automation & Systems Administrator
CDS Engineering BV

HP xw4300 Workstation
Dual Pentium XEON 3.6 Ghz
4 GB SDRAM
NVIDIA QUADRO FX 3450/4000 SDI (Driver = 8.4.2.6)
250 GB SEAGATE SATA Hard Disc
3Com Gigabit NIC

Windows XP Professional SP2
Autodesk Inventor Series 10 SP3a
--
Message 9 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I not sure how dangerous this process is, I've been doing it since release 9, and this is the first time I've had a problem.
But to try and clear up how this process is done here is a basic description.
We have a limited number of assembly types that we use. All are unique is some ways but in general are very similar. So I have created “template” assemblies and stored them in separate directories. Using code the designer selects the assembly they require and the code copies the template folder to a new location. The code then dumps values into the Parameter Tank.ipt part file that is specific to the assembly. This is a lot faster than updating each part individually. The parts in the assembly then can derive their parameters from the Parameter Tank.ipt file. This completely automates the design process for us. Also if the designer finds it necessary, he can change the whole design by just going to the Parameter Tank.ipt and changing some of the parameters, and the whole assembly with change to suit. I hope this makes it a little clearer.
The part in question is simple with only 2 parameters derived. It's an optional part and not included in the template assemblies. The designer only needs to copy the part into the assembly and the part updates to the values from the Parameter Tank.ipt.
Again I don't know how dangerous this sounds to anyone else, but it has worked flawlessly here for quite some time.
I've tried driving the assemblies using spreadsheets. I tried this using iparts (major disaster). This is by far the most stable and designer friendly way I have found to accomplish our designs.
Message 10 of 12
pkquat
in reply to: Anonymous

If I understand the workflow correctly, essentially a new project is created for each new assembly and a new Tank.ipt file is created for this project. Then all the assembly parts are copied into this project and "kicked" to conform to the parameters in the Tank.ipt. Teun or the Autodesk guys can comment better on how dangerous this is. Personally, I would call it risky. There could be an update of IV that could prevent this workflow. In essence so long as the new Tank.ipt that is create is an identical version of the source Tank.ipt that the assembly references your process should work fine. However once the Tank.ipt has been updated with new parameters then copying or adding files definitely becomes very risky. IV will think the two Tank.ipts are different.

"The part in question is simple with only 2 parameters derived. It's an optional part and not included in the template assemblies."

Since it is not part of the template assembly, the chance is increases that it may not view the new Tank.ipt as identical. Also if the Tank.ipt recently increased in the number of parameters that may be the source of the problem because this part is referencing a Tank.ipt with less parameters and therefore gets confused.

OR if the Tank.ipt is newly created off a macro, and now includes more parameters than the original source Tank.ipt this may be the cause for IV to think they are different.

I won't rule out the 100 parameters limit in your case. That is for Autodesk to confirm, but it may be 100 is the number you hit. Internally it may be some other number depending how, and how often the parameters are used in the assemblies, if you follow what I mean. Some multiple of derived parameters and their interaction might have reached a limit, though I do doubt it.
Message 11 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

"All are unique is some ways but in general are very similar. So I have
created "template" assemblies and stored them in separate directories. Using
code the designer selects the assembly they require and the code copies the
template folder to a new location. The code then dumps values into the
Parameter Tank.ipt part file that is specific to the assembly. This is a lot
faster than updating each part individually. The parts in the assembly then
can derive their parameters from the Parameter Tank.ipt file. This
completely automates the design process for us. Also if the designer finds
it necessary, he can change the whole design by just going to the Parameter
Tank.ipt and changing some of the parameters, and the whole assembly with
change to suit. I hope this makes it a little clearer."

To make you feel comfortable, we use the exact same method. I have written
an Add-in for my company which copies, renames and re-links a standard
assembly (complete with all fabrication drawings) from our "standard models"
to a project location. The Add-in also updates the parameters of our
"skeleton part". This works flawlessly.

"The part in question is simple with only 2 parameters derived. It's an
optional part and not included in the template assemblies. The designer only
needs to copy the part into the assembly and the part updates to the values
from the Parameter Tank.ipt."

If the part in question has only 2 parameters derived, you should be OK. You
will have the chance that Inventor decides that the derived part is
different (and thus moves all the previous derived parameters to the
UserParameters section). The "newly" derived parameters will get a "_1"
extension because there are already parameters with the same name.

Maybe it's better to also include the part in the standard assembly, but the
user must delete the part from the assembly if it's not required.
Another way is to look into iAssemblies. If that part is the only part which
is optional (and all other parts are always present in the assembly), a
simple 2-row iAssembly might work for you.

In short, moving that part from one project to another is tricky as it might
loose the link with the "Parameter Tank.ipt" file.

--
T. Ham
CAD Automation & Systems Administrator
CDS Engineering BV

HP xw4300 Workstation
Dual Pentium XEON 3.6 Ghz
4 GB SDRAM
NVIDIA QUADRO FX 3450/4000 SDI (Driver = 8.4.2.6)
250 GB SEAGATE SATA Hard Disc
3Com Gigabit NIC

Windows XP Professional SP2
Autodesk Inventor Series 10 SP3a
--
Message 12 of 12
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Well thank you for backing me up here. I thought I was going to have to start defending myself. LOL
We have dozens of options that can be used in our assemblies, and they are stored in directories outside the template directories. I just tested an "old" one to see if it still works, and there was no problems at all. It only seems to be any new parts that I create and try to do this same process.
I have been testing things like making a centralized Library like an earlier poster suggested, but I've reset everything back to the factory settings. Also I have tested 2008 on my machine, but I can not use it yet because the designers here have to upgrade first. I have no idea if either of these would have an effect on this.
My only recourse at this point is to create a secondary Parameter Tank.ipt in each template directory, because if I start completely from scratch it all works.
It may be that my Parameter Tank.ipt files have become corrupt. I have one last test I'm going to try and that is to re-create all the Parameter Tank.ipt files but this is going to take a while.
Is there anyway to export the parameter to excel easily?

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