Copy Paste, Only in Inventor

[jletcher]

Copy

Paste

Enough said............

[blair]

Works fine in IV2015sp1. Check that you have all your SP's and hot-fixes installed.

[graemev]

Dissimilar ends may not exhibit the reversal of direction.

[jletcher]

You need to add a few things to check but it works 45% of the time.

Draw rectangle dim it put sketch slot (not the new tool in 2015) add horz and vertical to constrain slot to rectangle add dim to slot now copy rectangle and slot then paste.

Again Inventor does what it wants..

 But thanks for the reply Blair..

[Cadmanto]

Try fully constraining the sketch then do it.  I copy and paste all the time and when the sketch is fully constrained I have less issues.

Or at the very least constrain it to itself.

If this solved your issue please mark this posting "Accept as Solution".

Or if you like something that was said and it was helpful, Kudos are appreciated. Thanks!!!! 

     

[jletcher]

The sketch is fully constrained..

Thank you for the reply Cadmanto..

[blair]

I remember there being issues with the Copy/Cut/Paste with older versions but I though that there were SP's / Hot-Fixes for those issues. I'm on IV2015sp1, so I can't really test.

Or it was fixed in IV2013

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! The behavior is certainly wrong. It seems like the arcs flip to the wrong side unnecessarily. But, I cannot seem to reproduce the behavior on R2015. Could you attach the file here or send it to me directly (johnson.shiue@autodesk.com)?

Many thanks!

[jletcher]

In this sample using the 12 inch dimension change to 16 inches then to 10 and just move it back and forth watch the red slot..

 Now it does paste messed up but rarly like 45% of the time but this is the side effects even if you fix the slot by removing the length dimension and dragging the slot back to a slot then re-dimension.

 So to fix it you have to delete the slots and make all new ones.

Saves time when you do things twice

[jletcher]

I do have all SP and hot fixes loaded.. 

And yes it does it in 2015 (tested last night) just don't use the make slot tool. I wrote a short program to copy and past 200 times out of that 95 failed but all fail in the move test.

 Thanks for the reply Blair...

[jtylerbc]

Took me a bit to figure out what you were trying to get us to try with the sample (partially because the dimension is saved at 10", not 12"), but I can replicate what you are describing.  If I cycle between those values (10, 12, 16), eventually the red slot's arcs flip.

I have not been able to replicate the arc flip during copy/paste.  Based on your 45% estimate and pasting approx. 20 times, I should have had about 9 of them paste incorrectly, but actually had none.  Not sure if that means I'm doing something a little differently than you did, or if it's just an inconsistent problem.  Something definitely isn't right here, but I'm not seeing all of the symptoms you are.

[jletcher]

I am thinking the slight move in the copy and paste makes the slot mess up when it feels like it.

Had it running more test in 2015 out of 200 this time only 20 failed another time 23 failed out of 200. I don't think I can really set an average of fails.

Thanks for the reply John

[stephengibson76]

i think this may explain the problem you are facing, it is imposible to constrain a slot on an inventor sketch, fully constrained the arcs can be either in or out and it will still solve either way and not allow you to add a constraint telling the arcs which way to go... Loren wrote this..

The basic issue here is the mathematical concept of chirality, or 
handedness. A centerpoint arc is a classic example of chirality, since there 
are two possible solutions to an arc defined by a center and two end points. 
I remember using 2D CAD packages that always drew arcs in the 
counter-clockwise direction because they could only track the order in which 
points were placed and they wanted to avoid chirality changes during update.

The Dimensional Constraint Manager (DCM) that Inventor uses tries to 
maintain the chirality of sketch geometry. However, there are situations 
where it will flip chirality. When I experimented with Josh's slot, the arcs 
stayed on the outside, but the horizontal construction line updated to be 
tangent to the virtual side of the arcs. This is the way DCM tried to 
maintain chirality with conflicting inputs- the arcs maintained chirality 
but the tangent constraints between the arcs and the construction line 
flipped chirality.

For those of you who are interested in the inner workings of sketchers, here 
is an excerpt from the DCM manual:
"Note that a model with N geometries may theoretically have up to 2^N 
solutions with different chiralities. An application cannot tell in advance 
which of the 2^N chiralities the DCM will need to know in order to solve the 
model. Thus, the only practical way to specify which solution is required is 
to use the initial geometry locations provided by the application. In some 
circumstances it is possible for the DCM to "remember" the chirality of a 
model from one evaluation to the next.

Only a single solution will be found by the DCM. Which solution is found 
depends upon the initial configuration of the geometries, dimensions and 
equations, any pending requests to change the chirality, and a number of 
options which are passed to the DCM. Many of the options are provided to 
affect which solution is found for underdefined geometry. The solved 
position of well defined geometry is unaffected by these options."

Basically, the more information you add to a model, the more likely that it 
will be stable. If you don't have a completely defined sketch from a 
mathematical perspective (which is different than from a dimensional 
perspective), then Inventor needs to guess what your intent was, and you 
might not be happy with the results after making changes. Taking Josh's 
sketch as an example, if you were to dimension the slot width, and then use 
an expression to define the length (Center_To Center_Length = 
Overall_Length - Width), the arcs should stay on the outside.

Loren Jahraus
Autodesk Inventor QA

[bob_holland]

James,

Can you please post a failing part.

If you dim to the arc centers does it make a difference?

Are you pasting in the same sketch or a different sketch?

Please provide us with a TXT from a Inventor Diagnostics Report.

I have attached a PDF to assist you.

Thank you.

[mcgyvr]

Bob,

Out of curiosity whats the point of 4 and 5 in that pdf document?

Open addins then cancel?

[bob_holland]

mcgyvr,

If you just open Inventor and do a Inventor Diagnostics Report you will not get a list of all of the Add-in scheduled to Autoload.

If you check you Add-in and then cancel, it will for the Autoload and will show us all of the scheduled Autoload Add-ins in the Inventor Diagnostics Report.

FYI

[jletcher]

I did post a failing part....

 I don't want the dimension from arc centers.

the same sketch

I have no addins....

 I am not running 2013 also so I can't start it... Also don't see how my video card would do this..

[bob_holland]

James

How are you doing on getting us an Inventor Diagnostics Report?

Thank you.

[jalger]

Hi James,

Well If you add 2 two points (one on each end of the slot, it seems to stablize and not bounce from side to side)

I see that your using 2012 so 2013, 2014, and 2015 examples just won't work for you.

So I have a picture of what I mean  (I'm sure you tried it already, But I went through 300+ pastes with no issue just to test it)

Points (at the ends on the quadrants)

Excessive Test (300+ Pastes)

I hope this helps,

James

[jletcher]

I just used a construction line basically the same concept.

Thanks for the reply James..