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Computer Specs for Product Design Suite

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Message 1 of 21
MicahelASC
695 Views, 20 Replies

Computer Specs for Product Design Suite

I am looking at getting a new computer to run the Product Design Suite.  It seems like you can get a pretty good computer for a decent price now a days: i7, 8+gb ram, 1TB HDD, W7 or W8 for around 1k.  The only thing I see across the board from all manufactures is a sub par graphics card with smaller power supplies.  It seems like to get a computer with a good graphics card you have to go into the gaming computers which are closer to 2k.  I feel like alot of that price comes from just being called a gaming computer.

 

My question is, do I really need a good graphics card?  I don't do alot of rendering, manly just large assembly files with lots of parts and contraints.  I don't usually add textures or materials.  Sometimes I'll add solid colors to show the different parts but thats about it.

 

My thoughts are, I need more cpu and ram power than gpu power for what I do.  I'm not after the high fps rates that gamers require.  I just want something that will run smooth while I have a couple assemblies open.

 

Im looking at something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX1HU1437

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220446

 

Am I going about this the right way, or do I need to invest into something that has a better graphics card? Thoughts, Concerns, Comments?

20 REPLIES 20
Message 2 of 21
Anonymous
in reply to: MicahelASC
Message 3 of 21
LT.Rusty
in reply to: MicahelASC

Build your own, and save a bunch of money.

 

I put together an i7-4770k with a 1kW PSU, 16 GB, an SSD and a 4GB AMD R9-270X card for about $1100.  It utterly destroys any pre-built computer of similar price, and is FAR more capable than the $4,000 workstation sitting on my desk at the office.

Rusty

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Message 4 of 21
dgorsman
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Or buy the parts and pay somebody in beer and pizza to assemble it for you.  Payment *after* assembly of course.  🙂

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 5 of 21
LT.Rusty
in reply to: dgorsman

No, during!  I like to live dangerously.

Rusty

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Message 6 of 21
mrattray
in reply to: LT.Rusty

I second the "roll your own" opinion. I built my home office AMD-8350 based PC for around $500. Granted I was reusing some other components I had around my home office and bought a couple of items used from a friend, but there's no reason you can't do the same.
Mike (not Matt) Rattray

Message 7 of 21
mrattray
in reply to: mrattray

Also, the quality of components that go into custom built PC's are far superior to OEM machines. I'm referring to ancillary things that aren't mentioned in a PC's line specs, like PSU's.
Mike (not Matt) Rattray

Message 8 of 21
MicahelASC
in reply to: mrattray

I think we got a little off topic here.  That might be my fault, sorry.  I understand a custom built computer is going to be the best option but they are more expensive when comparied to pre built ones (especially refurbished ones).  Personally I don't feel like spending extra money if I can get a pre built machine that is only slightly worse than a custom built.  

 

So, getting back to my original question, is have a good graphics card essential to run Inventor smoothly with large assemblies?  I feel like Inventor uses alot more of the CPU and RAM than it does the GPU.  Can someone confirm this statement for me?

 

Thanks Michael

 

 

Message 9 of 21
LT.Rusty
in reply to: MicahelASC


@MicahelASC wrote:

I think we got a little off topic here.  That might be my fault, sorry.  I understand a custom built computer is going to be the best option but they are more expensive when comparied to pre built ones (especially refurbished ones).  Personally I don't feel like spending extra money if I can get a pre built machine that is only slightly worse than a custom built.  

 

So, getting back to my original question, is have a good graphics card essential to run Inventor smoothly with large assemblies?  I feel like Inventor uses alot more of the CPU and RAM than it does the GPU.  Can someone confirm this statement for me?

 

Thanks Michael

 

 


 

You're sort of missing something here ... a custom built computer is NOT more expensive, in either the short term or the long term.  You buy the components yourself, put them together yourself.  You get a higher quality machine for less money right up front, and it will last you a lot longer because (a) you used higher quality - as in more durable - components and (b) you used higher quality - as in more future-proof - components, which saves you money in the long term in replacement cost.

 

But, yes - it is important to have a good video card.  Inventor is pretty CPU intensive, but if you're having thousands of components displayed on screen at once, of course it's going to work your video card pretty heavily.

Message 10 of 21
mrattray
in reply to: LT.Rusty


@LT.Rusty wrote:

You're sort of missing something here ... a custom built computer is NOT more expensive, in either the short term or the long term.  You buy the components yourself, put them together yourself.  You get a higher quality machine for less money right up front, and it will last you a lot longer because (a) you used higher quality - as in more durable - components and (b) you used higher quality - as in more future-proof - components, which saves you money in the long term in replacement cost.



 

Exactly.

Mike (not Matt) Rattray

Message 11 of 21
dgorsman
in reply to: LT.Rusty

At least, for a one-off.  When you need more than a handful then thats where mass-produced models will start to have cost savings.

 

Since everything has to work together, don't lean too heavily in one direction or the other.  A mondo graphics card won't perform up to spec in a system hobbled by insufficient RAM; a blazing fast factory overclocked CPU won't help if you are using the on-processor GPU hardware.  Best bet is to get something good for every part of the system.  It will cost only a little more than putting everything into one component but the whole system will perform better for longer.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 12 of 21
MicahelASC
in reply to: LT.Rusty

People keep saying that its cheaper to build than to buy but I don't fully believe that. The computer below (Dell XPS 8700) I can get shipped to my door for $700.  I priced out all the componets on Newegg.com to see how much it would cost for me to build the same/similar machine.  I sorted with the "lowest price" option and I picked the cheapest parts I could get.  Heres the list of prices I got.

 

cpu- 310 

cpu fan- 20 (from my experience with the i7 you need to buy a heatsink/cpu fan as well because the one supplied is crap)

mobo- 50
ram- 65
hd- 50
case- 35
psu - 40
OS- 100
gpu-30? (couldn't find that model but I image it to be around that price)

dvd-15

mouse/keyboard- 20

 

Total $735.  

 

Having not heard of a lot of the brands I used for a price reference I really would not want to buy these parts.  

Since it would actually cost me more and I don't believe that these parts are better quality, I don't see why people say its cheaper to build than to buy.  I'm not trying to start an argument but from my research I just don't find that statement to be true.

 

Maybe if I did spend more money and built a machine from quality parts, it would last longer.  My problem with that is If a computer is older than 7 years we call it a paper weight.  Technology changes too fast for me to want to put any decent amount of money into building a custom computer.  I much rather save that money and buy a new prebuilt computer every 5 years, instead of dealing with oudated hardware.  

 

I built a computer right be for the i-series came out.  I effectively built a $1000 computer that was obsolete in under a year.  That was a huge waste of money which is why I feel the way I do about building vs. buy.

 

Feel free to comment and tell me I'm an idiot 🙂 but those are my thoughts.

 

 

Link to 700 Dell xps 8700:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-XPS-8700-Desktop-4th-Gen-i7-4770-8GB-1TB-GT-635-Win-8-Warranty-/1312174...

 

Message 13 of 21
LT.Rusty
in reply to: MicahelASC


@MicahelASC wrote:

People keep saying that its cheaper to build than to buy but I don't fully believe that. The computer below (Dell XPS 8700) I can get shipped to my door for $700.  I priced out all the componets on Newegg.com to see how much it would cost for me to build the same/similar machine.  I sorted with the "lowest price" option and I picked the cheapest parts I could get.  Heres the list of prices I got.

 

cpu- 310 

cpu fan- 20 (from my experience with the i7 you need to buy a heatsink/cpu fan as well because the one supplied is crap)

mobo- 50
ram- 65
hd- 50
case- 35
psu - 40
OS- 100
gpu-30? (couldn't find that model but I image it to be around that price)

dvd-15

mouse/keyboard- 20

 

Total $735.  

 

Having not heard of a lot of the brands I used for a price reference I really would not want to buy these parts.  

Since it would actually cost me more and I don't believe that these parts are better quality, I don't see why people say its cheaper to build than to buy.  I'm not trying to start an argument but from my research I just don't find that statement to be true.

 

Maybe if I did spend more money and built a machine from quality parts, it would last longer.  My problem with that is If a computer is older than 7 years we call it a paper weight.  Technology changes too fast for me to want to put any decent amount of money into building a custom computer.  I much rather save that money and buy a new prebuilt computer every 5 years, instead of dealing with oudated hardware.  

 

I built a computer right be for the i-series came out.  I effectively built a $1000 computer that was obsolete in under a year.  That was a huge waste of money which is why I feel the way I do about building vs. buy.

 

Feel free to comment and tell me I'm an idiot 🙂 but thats my thoughts.

 

 

Link to 700 Dell xps 8700:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-XPS-8700-Desktop-4th-Gen-i7-4770-8GB-1TB-GT-635-Win-8-Warranty-/1312174...

 


 

Okay, first off, when you're building this system don't use a low-end business desktop as your benchmark.  That's a really bad idea.  Use a workstation that's designed to do what you want to do, or a gaming PC.  That Dell will do spreadsheets pretty quickly, but nothing else well.  It's going to be designed for power efficiency, not performance, which is important in a business setting.  You're not going to be able to put a monster video card in it and get decent performance, because it almost certainly will not have the PSU capacity to handle it.  It will certainly not have the heat dissipation capacity to handle running constantly at high loads.

 

Computers like that one are cheap because they put all their money into one component: the CPU.  Nothing else inside that box is worth anything.

 

Don't buy a new keyboard and mouse.  Keep using the ones that you have.  They work just fine, right?  That's extra money you can not spend.  Same for your case.and your DVD burner.  Why buy new ones if you don't need to?  I've got the same keyboard, mouse and case that I've had since 2006, and my DVD burner is from 2009.

 

You might need a new PSU, but if you buy a decent one now - get a good brand - you will keep it through several builds beyond this one, and that's money you don't need to spend on the next upgrade cycle.  (Of course, your current PSU might still work for this build, depending on how big it is.)

 

i7-4770k cooling fan and heat sink is just fine out of the box.  That's what I'm running, and it's fine even with a mild overclock.  (Don't do what I did and accidentally bump it to 4.8 while using the stock heat sink though - it doesn't like that and will BSOD on you constantly.)  So long as you keep it down around 3.9 max, you'll be okay.

 

A $50 motherboard - like what Dell uses - is crap.  Sorry, but that's the truth.  It will handicap your processor and your RAM.  If you get a $50 motherboard, you might as well just get an i3 and call it a day.  Spend about $150, minimum, on that.

 

You should be looking to spend about 8-9 hundred on the internal components, and re-using your PSU (if possible), case, keyboard and mouse.  Those are components you shouldn't be replacing every cycle.  Spending that amount of money and building it yourself is going to give you a machine that's the equivalent of a $4,000 Dell workstation.

 

 

Rusty

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Message 14 of 21
mrattray
in reply to: LT.Rusty

Exactly. You keep saying exactly what I came to say... it's kind of creepy.
Although, I'll toss in that you barely need a DVD-ROM anymore, let alone the dual Blu-Ray burners that come with high end pre-builds (as an example).
Mike (not Matt) Rattray

Message 15 of 21
LT.Rusty
in reply to: mrattray


@mrattray wrote:
Exactly. You keep saying exactly what I came to say... it's kind of creepy.
Although, I'll toss in that you barely need a DVD-ROM anymore, let alone the dual Blu-Ray burners that come with high end pre-builds (as an example).


Yep, dead on with the DVD.  I removed the one from my laptop entirely in favor of an SSD, and just switch a USB BD-ROM / DVD burner around between my desktop and laptop as needed.  I've still got a PATA DVD burner installed in my desktop, but all it's doing is filling up a hole in the front of the case, because my motherboard doesn't support PATA.  Robot LOL  I've used it exactly 3 times in the last 12 months - once to install the motherboard drivers when I did my latest rebuild a year ago, and the other two were more recent.  First recent use was to recover files from a DVD I burned in 2002, second was to install my new video card drivers a couple weeks ago.

Rusty

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Message 16 of 21
MicahelASC
in reply to: LT.Rusty

LT Rusty thank you for keeping this civil.  I was so afraid after I made that last post someone would get pissed off and lose their cool.  I appreciate having a well thought out conversation with someone through a forum.  That doesn't seem to happen...ever.

 

You make a some really good points and I agree theres no way I would only spend $50 on a mother board.  

 

Maybe they fixed the cpu fan issue with the i7's but I installed 3 different i7's with the stock cpu fan and they all blue screened on me.  The fix was to replace the fan with something bigger.  This was pre 4th gen.

 

I agree you can reuse the mouse, keyboard, and dvd but that only adds up to $50.  When your talking about $1000 computer thats really not much IMO and I did it to compair the two machines, apples for apples.  Personally I don't like to use a PSU for to many builds, as I've seen some die out and mess up a computer.  But I agree they can be recycled. 

 

Honestly, I have been using a similar computer (Dell xps 8500) for work (the owner bought it for me), and I've been pretty suprised with it.  It holds its own.  It does get bogged down when doing big pattern commands and big drawing files, but other than that it runs really nice.  It handles large assembly files like I would expect a work machine too.

 

I see both sides of the argument and I appreciate everyones input.  I'm still not sure what I'm going to do.

Message 17 of 21
LT.Rusty
in reply to: MicahelASC

I tend to save the vitriol for discussions about politics and what to have for dinner, that sort of thing.

 

 

As far as a PSU goes, get something high quality with surplus capacity and you'll be just fine.  I've got a 1000W Corsair with a single 12V rail that's been going strong since .... 2008?  2009?  I expect that it'll last me the life of my current build.  Next build will likely get a new PSU. 

 

That's the other neat thing about building them yourself: ir's a rolling upgrade cycle.  You don't have to change everything all at once unless you want to.  You can go from a first gen i7 to a Haswell and only change the MB and CPU.  RAM will sitll work, your video card will still work.  Come back in a few months and get different / more RAM if you want.  Come back a year later for a new video card.  Come back the year after that for a new PSU.  Lather, rinse, repeat. 

Rusty

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Message 18 of 21
mrattray
in reply to: MicahelASC


@MicahelASC wrote:

LT Rusty thank you for keeping this civil.  I was so afraid after I made that last post someone would get pissed off and lose their cool.  I appreciate having a well thought out conversation with someone through a forum.  That doesn't seem to happen...ever.

 


That's exactly what I like so much about this forum. It has a respectful, professional atmosphere that other forums lack.

Mike (not Matt) Rattray

Message 19 of 21
riff62
in reply to: mrattray

Most of the time...Just don't people get started on the "Classic" pre Ribbon debate....haha
Message 20 of 21
mrattray
in reply to: riff62


@riff62 wrote:
Most of the time...Just don't people get started on the "Classic" pre Ribbon debate....haha

That's kind of like debating politics or religion in the workplace, isn't it?

Mike (not Matt) Rattray

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