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Choosing a Graphics Adapter - Help

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Message 1 of 42
SBix26
394 Views, 41 Replies

Choosing a Graphics Adapter - Help

We're needing to choose a graphics adapter for several new Inventor computers. We have very little choice in the computer hardware, and none in the operating system: XP 32-bit. With those constraints, what graphics card will give us the best performance? I'm no expert, but from what I read, the GPU memory uses the same 4GB address space as RAM and other system components, so that increasing GPU memory reduces usable RAM.

Is that the case? Is it simply a question of choosing the fastest graphics card with the smallest memory, or is it more complicated than that?

Our typical Inventor projects range up to several hundred unique parts, and we will soon be moving to Inventor 2010. I'm looking at NVIDIA Quadro FX 1700, 1800, 3700 & 3800, trying to figure out best bang for the buck. I could also consider abandoning OpenGL and going with a GeForce card, which I know will give better performance per dollar, but with some sacrifice of (anti-aliasing) quality.

Thoughts? I will also be asking this question of our reseller, but not sure of their expertise in this area.

Sam
41 REPLIES 41
Message 21 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26


The video ram resides on the vídeo card  and
is addressed directly by the video processor.

The main processor does not address it directly. It
remains apart of its full address range (4GB).

So the main 32 bit processor can have its 4GB
ram and the video processor can have another 4GB ( or more ?).

Like 2 different PCs in a network.

 

My brain is overheating, I have to pick a
beer!

 

Regards

JBarbosa 

 


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>


System RAM, video RAM, L2 cache, etc. - it's
all just memory, and must be addressable.  If its address cannot be
expressed in 32 bits (i.e., 2^32 bytes = 4GB), then it cannot be seen
(addressed) by a 32-bit operating system.






brian
r. iwaskewycz


style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">inventor
specialist


style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">

style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">
title="http://www.corefurnace.com/ CTRL + Clique para seguir a hiperligação"
href="http://www....
Message 22 of 42
kellings
in reply to: SBix26



I'm so confused when I read this. I have a few XP discs that I don't think are even good enough to use as coasters for my sodas anymore.


I don't want to get to far off topic from the OPs question, but he seems to have gotten all the answers he needs.


Walt, can you give me some specifics of where you see your issues with Vista? What makes it such a steaming heap?


Indexed search, live preview without opening documents, flip 3d with an free addon called switcher (a dream for productivity), launching programs from the start menu just by typing their name, not to mention the system monitoring tools that the IT guys in my former company loved.


Vista was written to be 64bit from the beginning. XP was modified to be 64 bit.


I have been using Windows 7 for close to a year now, and it takes everything I like about Vista, adds a little more, and makes it leaner and more productive. I can see no reason that any Engineering firm shouldn't move to 7 about as fast as it comes out.


{size}{font}
Edited by: kellings on Oct 8, 2009 2:41 AM
Kevin Ellingson
Technical Specialist

If my post resolves your issue, please click the Accept Solution button.
Message 23 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26


I know Win7 looks v good, but would be wary
advising people to rush out and install it as soon as it's
released...

 

Why, well afaik it's not
an officially-supported OS for Inventor 2010.  Hell, we dont even know
if Inventor 2011 will 100% support it (be madness not to) - would recommend
people just step back 2 minutes and wait to see how the dust settles & an
Win7-supported Inventor is released.  No problem with being cutting edge,
but can soon become the bleeding-edge if you're not carful...

 

I believe there are already a couple problems with
Inventor and Win7 (and will no doubt be more as it becomes a more common OS) -
so would think it unwise for anyone outside of AD to recommend Inventor users to
jump ship to Win7 asap...

 

just my 2c

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

I'm
so confused when I read this. I have a few XP discs that I don't think are
even good enough to use as coasters for my sodas anymore.
I don't want to
get to far off topic from the OPs question, but he seems to have gotten all
the answers he needs.
Walt, can you give me some specifics of where you
see your issues with Vista? What makes it such a steaming heap?
Indexed
search, live preview without opening documents, flip 3d with an free addon
called switcher (a dream for productivity), launching programs from the start
menu just by typing their name, not to mention the system monitoring tools
that the IT guys in my former company loved.
Vista was written to be 64bit
from the beginning. XP was modified to be 64 bit.
I have been using
Windows 7 for close to a year now, and it takes everything I like about Vista,
adds a little more, and makes it leaner and more productive. I can see no
reason that any Engineering firm shouldn't move to 7 about as fast as it comes
out.
{size}{font}
Edited by: kellings on Oct 8, 2009 2:41
AM
Message 24 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26


afaik Brian is correct - this is a limitation to
32bit that has only really become apparent/problematic as gfx-cards have gone
over the 1024meg mark as those that need more gfx-memory are those that are
likely to be pushing the 2gb limit of a 32-bit application and thus starting to
starve the OS/other apps with the available memory.  It's quite easy to see
this limitation on a 32bit system with 4gb ram, just goto control-panel ->
system and note the available ram (my pc here physically has 4gb ram, but
windows only reports 3.25gb - the missing is due to the gfx-ram reserving the
missing space).

 

I've posted a few links to this issue in the past -
mainly linked to Vista 32-bit due to greater problems there with
this.

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
"J Barbosa" <josevbarbosa.at.netcabo.pt> wrote in message
href="news:6267994@discussion.autodesk.com">news:6267994@discussion.autodesk.com
...


The video ram resides on the vídeo card  and
is addressed directly by the video processor.

The main processor does not address it directly.
It remains apart of its full address range (4GB).

So the main 32 bit processor can have its
4GB ram and the video processor can have another 4GB ( or more
?).

Like 2 different PCs in a network.

 

My brain is overheating, I have to pick a
beer!

 

Regards

JBarbosa 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">


System RAM, video RAM, L2 cache, etc. - it's
all just memory, and must be addressable.  If its address cannot be
expressed in 32 bits (i.e., 2^32 bytes = 4GB), then it cannot be seen
(addressed) by a 32-bit operating system.






brian
r. iwaskewycz


style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">inventor
specialist


style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">

style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">
title="http://www.corefurnace.com/ CTRL + Clique para seguir a hiperligação"
href="http://...
Message 25 of 42
HallStevenson
in reply to: SBix26

Walt, without getting into an "nVidia vs ATI" debate, with the ATI card, you're still suggesting their FireGL, which is their "CAD" card instead of ATI's "gamer" card (I don't know what designation they use).

Just curious how you feel about the gamer vs CAD card aspect now. I know you said Inventor isn't as picky today. That's based on IV using DirectX-based graphics instead of OpenGL as it did in the past, thereby sorta needing a Quadro or FireGL card for best performance. We currently have nVidia GeForce GTS cards and with some parts (admittedly, fairly large and 'curvy') see issues.
Message 26 of 42
kellings
in reply to: SBix26

Good point Sam. I should have said that as soon as Autodesk supports Win 7 that engineering departments should upgrade. I do think that by the time Win 7 is released, or very shortly there after, Autodesk will fully support Win 7. They would be crazy not to.
Kevin Ellingson
Technical Specialist

If my post resolves your issue, please click the Accept Solution button.
Message 27 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26


 


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">


I'm so confused when I read this. I have a few XP discs that I don't
think are even good enough to use as coasters for my sodas anymore.
I don't
want to get to far off topic from the OPs question, but he seems to have
gotten all the answers he needs.
Walt, can you give me some specifics of
where you see your issues with Vista? What makes it such a steaming
heap?
Indexed search, live preview without opening documents, flip 3d with
an free addon called switcher (a dream for productivity), launching programs
from the start menu just by typing their name, not to mention the system
monitoring tools that the IT guys in my former company loved.
Vista was
written to be 64bit from the beginning. XP was modified to be 64 bit.
I
have been using Windows 7 for close to a year now, and it takes everything I
like about Vista, adds a little more, and makes it leaner and more productive.
I can see no reason that any Engineering firm shouldn't move to 7 about as
fast as it comes out.
{size}{font}
Edited by: kellings on Oct 8, 2009
2:41 AM

 

Yes, and I very clearly stated that everyone--hey,
that's me too--understands that 64 bits is a more desirable way to shovel data
around, and that a native 64 bit OS will have inherent advantages that even
a ported OS won't be able to touch.

 

But the last place I contracted for, they got
spanking new Vista hotrods...dual quadcores, high-end Quadros and 8GB of
RAM.  Inventor ran fine, and Vista's interface wasn't impossible to
acclimate to.  Then again, we lost the ability to print to our workhorse
Cannon printer...and were told that there were no plans to write a driver for
it, ever.  This wasn't some $100 printer from Best Buy, it was a fairly new
office-grade printer/copier.  We lost the ability to remote log in.  A
handful of our peripherals like cameras just quit working.  That was
weird.  Again, no fix planned, ever.

 

7 is unsupported for the current version of
Inventor.  If you're going to advise that everyone should just go
there immediately, the only courteous thing to do would be to also supply your
cell phone number so you can tech support for us all, because Microsoft and
Autodesk sure aren't going to do it.  While you're at it, better buy
everyone a copy of Excel 2010 too, because some of us need our
iParts.

 

If you can take the time and effort to work
around the issues that are inherent with an OS change of this magnitude, and be
an early adopter, that's wonderful, and we're all grateful to you for blazing
the trail for us.  Not all of us have that luxury.  When the dust
settles and the little glitches, gotchas and deal killers are all found and
worked out, I'm thinking that 7 is shaping up to be the XP of the new
decade.  But until it's proved that it can be as good in it's time as
venerable old (and yes, it's looking very old lately) 32 bit XP did in it's era,
then the people who go there are still proceeding at risk.  Again, I will
blame no one for taking a conservative approach to that one.

 

Cheers,

Walt
Message 28 of 42
HallStevenson
in reply to: SBix26

> {quote:title=kellings wrote:}{quote}
> Indexed search, live preview without opening documents, flip 3d with an free addon called switcher (a dream for productivity), launching programs from the start menu just by typing their name, not to mention the system monitoring tools that the IT guys in my former company loved.


Those benefit an Inventor user how ?

-- Indexed searching is nice but I would hope most business users store their data on network drives and normally indexing doesn't apply to remote drives, only local ones.
-- IV has "live preview" built into it's file dialog boxes.
-- Flip 3d ? Please.... Most users I know have used "alt-tab" ONCE .... when I told them how to do it .... and have NEVER done it again. Most users also think that the taskbar only 'opens' an application window, not that it allows you to cycle through apps. They will use the "_" button in the window to minimize the window then the taskbar to open a different one. Never do they have multiple windows "open" or up.
-- Everything is double-clicky in my experience, not typed. Double-click hyperlinks in web browsers, double-click buttons in toolbars, etc, etc.
Message 29 of 42
kellings
in reply to: SBix26

OK, calm down a little Walt. I wasn't meaning for this to be an attack on you. I am just tired of people making blanket statements about how bad Vista is and giving no specifics. You would be surprised the number of times I have had this discussion with someone and came to find out they had never even used it.

If you look, I corrected my previous statement to say wait until I Autodesk supports it. And I will bet money that you will be edit iparts with versions of excel other than 2010. Only time will tell.

Things like no drivers for printers are valid complaints. Just remember, that wasn't a problem with Vista, that was the hardware makers deciding they wanted to use this as chance to get you to buy new hardware. Microsoft did a bad job of communicating this, but when you first install Vista you can opt in to make Windows better. One of the things that entailed was once Microsoft received notification from 200 users that their device didn't work, Microsoft wrote the driver for it themselves and pushed it out throught windows update. Now remember, the device makers had several years to update their drivers and chose not to. However, if you printer or device doesn't work, do you care? Nope, big pain in the butt for you. I 100% agree.

I personally don't see any huge changes between XP and Vista. Yes it is different, but I don't think it is different enough that it doesn't work like older versions of Windows. I think it is easier to use. Again, that is personal preference.

The differences between Windows 7 and Vista are mostly performance related. I will be pretty surprised if there are many things that don't work in 7 that did in Vista.

And then consider that the version of Windows 7 that most businesses will buy is Professional which you can use to download and run a virtual copy of XP will solve about any compatibility issue that you may have with older software not working in newer versions of Windows.

I should also say that I don't disagree with you about waiting to see what happens. I do feel very confident that only good things will happen with Windows 7. Like I said, I have been running it for almost a year, and the stability and performance is amazing. People have been using about a 10 year old operating system now.

So I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you. I still stand by what I say. I would pull the trigger as soon as Autodesk supports 7. Would I switch mid project? Of course no.

I would also hope that IT departments have been testing it out. They have had a long time to give it a try.
Kevin Ellingson
Technical Specialist

If my post resolves your issue, please click the Accept Solution button.
Message 30 of 42
kellings
in reply to: SBix26

I am almost positive that network drives can be indexed. It has no problem with multiple external HDs.

I don't find Flip 3D that useful either. However, combine it with Aero and Switcher, a free utility, and it is very useful. I will attach a link to 3 youtube videos. Watch and I think you will see the value over alt tab. In these videos, the use keyboard shortcuts to activate switcher. You also have the option to activate Switcher with mouse gestures, which is how I do it. If I move my mouse to the very upper right corner, or lower right corner, Switcher arranges all of my windows.

http://bit.ly/8Smrh

http://bit.ly/19QisH

http://bit.ly/diRMH
Kevin Ellingson
Technical Specialist

If my post resolves your issue, please click the Accept Solution button.
Message 31 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26


Same thing here back when we used XP32.  Our
computers had 4GB of RAM and 256MB video cards.  The BIOS reported 4GB of
memory present, but Windows System Properties said there was only 3.75GB
(i.e., 4GB - (256MB)(1GB/1024MB) = 3.75GB).






brian r.
iwaskewycz


style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">inventor
specialist


style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">core furnace
systems
Message 32 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26


"they would be crazy not to" - I know mate, but
from memory (probably wrong) - when Vista was released it was only the next
version of Inventor that was officially supported.  So... with that in
mind, history almost implies 2010 will not/never be Win7 supported/compatible
and will have to wait 'til 2011 (presumably around April) for any recommended
upgrade to Win7.  At least by then any Win7 limitations should be known,
but then it's the golden-oldie question as to whether to upgrade to the new
Inventor version asap or wait for it's bedding-in period...  it never
ends...

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
Good
point Sam. I should have said that as soon as Autodesk supports Win 7 that
engineering departments should upgrade. I do think that by the time Win 7 is
released, or very shortly there after, Autodesk will fully support Win 7. They
would be crazy not to.
Message 33 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26


 > I still stand by what I say. I would pull the trigger as soon as
Autodesk supports 7.

 

<chuckle>

 

No, that is very definitely not what you
said.  You said:

 

> To all who will not let go of XP as the
primary OS, stop the madness.

 

 

There's a rather large difference between
the two, and if you'd have put it in those terms from the beginning, we wouldn't
be having this conversation.

 

As I said, I appreciate that you've pioneered the
move to the new OS for us all--I really do.  Your endorsement has helped me
in my decision about when and how to make the move myself.  I also
understand your enthusiasm for something you believe in. I do the same thing, as
this group well knows.  But no matter whose fault the Vista debacle was, it
still happened.  So I should curse Cannon too... great; but how does that
help me?  No matter how you parse the blame, the fact remains that those
that did not get Vista sidestepped the problem altogether.  It was pretty
funny when the most important piece of equipment on my desk--sitting right
next to that mega-expensive workstation the company bought me--was
my trusty old M90 laptop with XP loaded...so I could print.  I
fully understand anyone who was not willing to find out the hard way that their
$200 upgrade to Vista comes with a surprise, non negotiable $6000 printer
replacement.  It is not madness to take a cautious attitude towards a
move to Windows 7.

 

Unless Windows 7 support is something that Autodesk
can add to Inventor in a service pack or hotfix (maybe, but that's a pretty
large leap), we won't see an officially 7 safe version of Inventor until next
April.  That tells me exactly when it will be sane for mainstream Inventor
users to consider a move to the new OS.

 

Cheers,

Walt
Message 34 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26

wrote in message news:6268116@discussion.autodesk.com...
Walt, without getting into an "nVidia vs ATI" debate, with the ATI card,
you're still suggesting their FireGL, which is their "CAD" card instead of
ATI's "gamer" card (I don't know what designation they use).

Just curious how you feel about the gamer vs CAD card aspect now. I know you
said Inventor isn't as picky today. That's based on IV using DirectX-based
graphics instead of OpenGL as it did in the past, thereby sorta needing a
Quadro or FireGL card for best performance. We currently have nVidia GeForce
GTS cards and with some parts (admittedly, fairly large and 'curvy') see
issues.


This machine I'm running now came with a FireGL card, so that's what I'm
referencing; I don't have any direct experience with ATIs gamer cards. I
don't remember what flavor the ATI-equipped laptop I used, but that was
IV2008 era, and the machine was issued to me by Autodesk for some work I was
doing for them. Back then, the fact that it worked well probably meant that
it was a high-end card. My personal experience with ATI is limited, but I
do know that they are a viable alternative to Nvidia these days. But
because of that, if I was personally going to spec an ATI card, it would be
a tough choice between the high and low. You can get a halfway decent
gaming card with a Gig of RAM onboard (great for making the jump to 64 bit
) for $100 these days. For that cost I could budget for a high-end card,
buy the gaming card and see how it works. If it did, I'd have saved myself
some money, and if not, I'd have a new card to put in the machine I use to
play Fallout 3 XD

Cheers,
Walt
Message 35 of 42
dick_upton
in reply to: SBix26

We got nailed with a Canon boat anchor too:


IN 2002, WHEN WE WENT TO WINDOWS XP.



I wouldn't blame Vista for Canon's laziness. We just got a 10 year old Xerox 8825 plotter to run under Vista 64-bit.

I got no problems with Vista!

Of course, we did our homework this time before the move to a new OS.
Message 36 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26

I've been using microcomputers and PC's since 1974 for business only,
not entertainment.

Give me an OS that's stable and SIMPLE. i could care less about
transparent dialogs, animated cursors,and all the other fluff that has
been stuffed into Windows. Here's what I need in Windows:

A Windows Explorer that does not crash 3 times a day... (version 8 sucks)

A Windows OS that runs multiple applications seamlessly ( not always
possible today in XP, Vista, and probably W7) without treading on other
apps

A Windows OS that is not so bloated that it requires 500 MB just to load
it.

MS Office applications that run in Windows without doing weird things...
Should not be hard when MS does both... 🙂

A Microsoft that does NOT release such wonders such as Windows
Millenium, and Vista just because they have nothing innovative to
currently sell.

Users that no longer drink the Microsoft KoolAid thinking that the NEXT
NEW THING (OS) will solve all their computer issues.

Fact is that xp64 was ported from Windows Server OS, and can do
everything needed to run a high performing and stable system IF PROPERLY
set up. Ask why.....

I have no issues with xp64/IV2008/2009/2010 Professional, when others
cannot translate, have stability issues, or cannot get the Pro modules
and add-ins to work. I have no inside track to secrets...
--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor Certified Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr. Tel. (260) 399-6615
http://teknigroup.com
Message 37 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26

>I've been using microcomputers and PC's since 1974 for business only,
>not entertainment.



>I have no inside track to secrets...

There's one right there. No fancy net-connected desktops, oddball
screensavers, googly toolbars, lolcats, animated mouse pointers, iTunes,
games or goofy java widgets loaded up on your get 'er done machine. Even
32bit XP will still run Inventor hot and true if you don't treat it like a
teenager's bedroom.

Of course, these days it's not just a matter of not loading that junk up,
but of diligently and actively fending it off.

Cheers,
Walt
Message 38 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26

Walt:

Add MSN Messenger to your list.

I run a home based office so my work machines become hand-me-downs to the
offspring. Now, whereas these machines may no longer be happy running IV
and larger assemblies, they're still pretty good machines.

Then, "Dad, this old computer is getting slow." "True that", as they say.
The hard drive is churning and the mouse barely responds. After predicting
where the sluggish mouse is going to be through bringing up control panel,
Add/Delete Programs and finding MSN Messenger and merely selecting 'Delete
Program', poof the machine is brilliantly fast again.

The best part is "Dad, not only does my computer work again, but that
annoying pop-up in the bottom right corner has stopped - thanks".

Richard
Message 39 of 42
2grumpy
in reply to: SBix26

picture, all CPU processors are used by INV software - HA, HA,....
Message 40 of 42
Anonymous
in reply to: SBix26



"No, that is very definitely not what you
said.  You said:

 

> To all who will not let go of XP as the
primary OS, stop the madness."

 

It's my turn to chuckle because
face=Arial> you have it wrong.  He did not say that.  I
did.

 

XP is an end of life product.  XP64 is as
well.  If you are in an upgrade cycle, there is no reason from the Inventor
standpoint to limit yourself to a 32bit OS (or an end of life one for that
matter).  I did not say you should rush out and install 7.  I did say
that "running virtualized XP 32 is easier than ever."  You can run an XP VM
in Vista x64 as well as 7 x64 for legacy apps, and still have a more
secure and limitless (well 128GB RAM artificially imposed) memory capacity
machine for CAD work.


style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>


 > I still stand by what I say. I would pull the trigger as soon
as Autodesk supports 7.

 

<chuckle>

 

No, that is very definitely not what you
said.  You said:

 

> To all who will not let go of XP as the
primary OS, stop the madness.

 

 

There's a rather large difference
between the two, and if you'd have put it in those terms from the beginning,
we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

As I said, I appreciate that you've pioneered the
move to the new OS for us all--I really do.  Your endorsement has helped
me in my decision about when and how to make the move myself.  I also
understand your enthusiasm for something you believe in. I do the same thing,
as this group well knows.  But no matter whose fault the Vista debacle
was, it still happened.  So I should curse Cannon too... great; but how
does that help me?  No matter how you parse the blame, the fact remains
that those that did not get Vista sidestepped the problem altogether.  It
was pretty funny when the most important piece of equipment on
my desk--sitting right next to that mega-expensive workstation the
company bought me--was my trusty old M90 laptop with XP loaded...so
I could print.  I fully understand anyone who was not willing to find out
the hard way that their $200 upgrade to Vista comes with a surprise, non
negotiable $6000 printer replacement.  It is not madness to
take a cautious attitude towards a move to Windows 7.

 

Unless Windows 7 support is something that
Autodesk can add to Inventor in a service pack or hotfix (maybe, but that's a
pretty large leap), we won't see an officially 7 safe version of Inventor
until next April.  That tells me exactly when it will be sane for
mainstream Inventor users to consider a move to the new OS.


face=Arial>
 

Cheers,

Walt

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