Can't Delete Coincidental constraint

[chipwitch]

I'm having trouble finding the right search terms so I'm not finding a solution on my own to this really simple problem.

I'm still using 2013.  If I knew what the particular menu was called, I'd probably have had better luck with my search... While the context menu that comes up when you hover over a curve, point, vertex etc is very handy for selecting in the model space, but in sketch mode I find it quite annoying.  Previous versions allowed you to simply hover over a vertex in a sketch mode and the coincident constraint icons would appear where they could then be deleted.  First of all, what is this menu called?  Second, can I turn it off in sketch mode and still retain the feature in model space?

Ultimately, the problem I'm having is that I'm trying to delete a coincedent constraint in a sketch of a line with an object (the end point of the line is coincident with the object).  Aside for hovering and waiting for the CC icons to appear, the only way I know to delete a CC is to select the line, then right click, "delete CC."  That doesn't work for a line to an object.

<update>  I accidentally found that if I exit sketch mode, then return to sketch mode, I was successful in getting the "Delete CC" method to work.  Further, I found the hover no longer shows the "point, curve, vertex" selection menu when I hover over the vertices.  Can someone please explain what's happening?  Is this just a bug or am I going crazy?

[Nicolas.Bourquin]

Dear Chipwitch,

could you try to apply the following constraints settings (or verify they are selected) ?

1) Tools >> Application options >> Tab "Sketch" >> Select the option "Display coincident constraint on creation" >> Apply >> Close >> Close Inventor >> Launch inventor again.

=> now when a new sketch is generated, the coincident points should be automatically displayed.

2) in a sketch >> sketch Tab of the ribbon >> constraint >> dropdown constraint list >> select "constraint visibility" >> select "coincident" (and select other constraints if necessary) >> apply >> ok

>> press F8 to display all constraints (or in sketch >> RMB >> Show all constraints

=> now all the coincident constraints should be displayed, selectable and can be deleted.

I hope that could help.

Please, hit the Accept as Solution button if my post answers your question.

Best Regards

[chipwitch]

No, it didn't help.  The settings you suggested were already selected.  This has to be some kind of bug.  Really disappointing.  The exact same thing happens from time to time and I cannot repeat it.  However, exiting the sketch mode back to model space, then immediately re-opening the sketch allows the user to hover over and select coincidental constraints as intended.  I can't believe I'm the only one who ever experienced this.

[jdavis417]

You're not... and it's both... a bug that's driving you crazy! 😉

I believe it's happened to me on systems running gaming cards and Quadro's alike...

[mrattray]

Just to be clear, when you press F8 you do not see the yellow dots showing a coincidence constraint?
Can you post an example file? I'm not sure what you mean by "object".

[chipwitch]

Thanks.  That's good to know.  About the bug, I mean.  I've been well aware I'm technically crazy for years!

Same here on the cards.  Though, the Quadro is on my laptop.

[chipwitch]

mrattray, I see the yellow dot signifying a coincidental constraint.  It can't be deleted, by any means... UNLESS, I exit sketch and the re-open the sketch.  THEN, hovering over the point will produce the coincidental consraint icon (tag?), which can then be selected and "deleted."  Or, alternatively, you can select the curve, right click and "Delete coincidental constraint."  But it doesn't always behave that way.  Sometimes, hovering will produce the context menu (like a tool tip) where all the possible "objects" ("points", "curves" etc.)  I don't know what that menu is called.   I use it all the time in model space.  It's function is to clarify the "object," or element or whatever you want to call a point, curve etc that the user is trying to select.  It is intended to resolve ambiguity when using a pointing device on a two dimensional screen to select an "object" in 3d space.

Posting a file will serve no purpose.  It happens in every file and has something to do with some activity that the user does within a sketch.  I don't know what's causing it, but opening a sketch, before clicking on anything in the ribbon, resolves the issue.  Honestly, I can't imagine why that hover menu would even come up on a two dimensional sketch.

[mrattray]

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@chipwitch wrote:

mrattray, I see the yellow dot signifying a coincidental constraint.  It can't be deleted, by any means... UNLESS, I exit sketch and the re-open the sketch.  THEN, hovering over the point will produce the coincidental consraint icon (tag?), which can then be selected and "deleted." 

...

Posting a file will serve no purpose.  It happens in every file and has something to do with some activity that the user does within a sketch.  I don't know what's causing it, but opening a sketch, before clicking on anything in the ribbon, resolves the issue.  Honestly, I can't imagine why that hover menu would even come up on a two dimensional sketch.

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I've never seen this before. Can you give me some steps or something, anything to reproduce it with?

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@chipwitch wrote:

Sometimes, hovering will produce the context menu (like a tool tip) where all the possible "objects" ("points", "curves" etc.)  I don't know what that menu is called.   I use it all the time in model space.  It's function is to clarify the "object," or element or whatever you want to call a point, curve etc that the user is trying to select.  It is intended to resolve ambiguity when using a pointing device on a two dimensional screen to select an "object" in 3d space.

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The term is "entities". If I'm understanding you correctly, the "context menu"/"hover menu" is the Select Other box. It's purpose is not to "clarify the 'object'", it is to allow for selecting something that's obfuscated by something else. It has good reason to be present in sketch mode, and should not be interfering with deletion of sketch constraints.

[chipwitch]

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@mrattray wrote:

I've never seen this before. Can you give me some steps or something, anything to reproduce it with?

---

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The term is "entities". If I'm understanding you correctly, the "context menu"/"hov"er menu" is the Select Other box. It's purpose is not to "clarify the 'object'", it is to allow for selecting something that's obfuscated by something else. It has good reason to be present in sketch mode, and should not be interfering with deletion of sketch constraints.

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1) No, I cannot reproduce it, yet I know the longer I spend editting a sketch the more likely it is to happen. 

2) Entities, works for me.  I agree with you... It "should NOT be interfering with deletion of sketch constraints."

[mrattray]

Well, there's really nothing else I can do to help you if I can't see exactly what's happening.

[jdavis417]

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@chipwitch wrote:

Thanks.  That's good to know.  About the bug, I mean.  I've been well aware I'm technically crazy for years!

---

Mr. Einstein defined insanity as, "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."... and you apparently keep showing up to work every day! 😉

[chipwitch]

Yes, it's one of the unfortunate perils of working at home. 

[SBix26]

I have exactly the same experience as chipwitch-- sometimes while editing a sketch, the pop-up constraint icons for coincident constraints (see image below) quit displaying when hovering over the coincident constraint yellow squares.  It has nothing to do with the Select Other menu, which displays as always after the chosen delay time.  I always have coincident constraints visible, and most of the time the constraint icons pop up immediately when pausing the cursor over them.  But sometimes they don't.  I haven't pursued any serious troubleshooting since the workaround is so simple: exit the sketch and re-enter the sketch.

I suspect that it is a graphics issue (the software says to display them, but they don't actually appear) rather than a software issue (the software forgets to request that they be displayed).  But I haven't so far noticed any correlation to anything else.

Sam B
Inventor 2012 Certified Professional

Inventor Professional 2014 SP1 U2
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit, SP1
HP EliteBook 8770w; 8 GB RAM; Core™ i7-3720QM 2.60 GHz; Quadro K4000M

[chipwitch]

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@sbixler wrote:

I have exactly the same experience as chipwitch-- sometimes while editing a sketch, the pop-up constraint icons for coincident constraints (see image below) quit displaying when hovering over the coincident constraint yellow squares.  It has nothing to do with the Select Other menu, which displays as always after the chosen delay time.  I always have coincident constraints visible, and most of the time the constraint icons pop up immediately when pausing the cursor over them.  But sometimes they don't.  I haven't pursued any serious troubleshooting since the workaround is so simple: exit the sketch and re-enter the sketch.

I suspect that it is a graphics issue (the software says to display them, but they don't actually appear) rather than a software issue (the software forgets to request that they be displayed).  But I haven't so far noticed any correlation to anything else.

Sam B
Inventor 2012 Certified Professional

Inventor Professional 2014 SP1 U2
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit, SP1
HP EliteBook 8770w; 8 GB RAM; Core™ i7-3720QM 2.60 GHz; Quadro K4000M

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Hello Sam.  You're right.  However, if I implied that the Select Other menu was the cause, I apologize.  In my case, the Select Other menu pops up on hover. 

I disagree with the statement that it is a hardware issue.  It happens on two different completely different systems.  I dabble in writing software and this symptom behaves like a bug.  As you said, simply exiting sketch mode and reopening the sketch is the work-around.  Initialization procedural code is typically called any time a change in mode occurs.  In this case, hover is obviously a condition that is constantly being checked internally by Inventor software or by a hardware interrupt.  In either case, Inventor software will call the subroutine or function required, depending on the current mode.  The fact that the Select Other menu (one procedural call) is popping up instead of the coincident constraint icon (another, mutually exclusive procedural call) is evidence of software choosing one or the other.   Hardware isn't going to consistently call the wrong procedure.  That was the only thing I meant by stating in the OP that the Select Other menu was popping up.

I'd bet money that it's a bug.  I also recognize the possibility that maybe I'm doing something wrong.  But, clicking on the open sketch (non-entity area), hitting escape, selecting an entity etc doesn't seem to "reset" the mode and the hover behavior.  Only exiting the sketch and reopening (re-initializing) does, as I would expect wearing my software developer's hat. 

As I'm writing this, this just occurred to me... this behavior isn't likely to be caused by any of the drawing tools (curves, arcs, points, rectangles, etc).  My guess is that it would be related to some tool that interracts with the 3D model space, perhaps project?  I don't have time to test that theory right now, but next time I run Inventor, I'm going to look into that.

Anyway... Cheers!

[SBix26]

Good luck with checking your theory.  

One thing you stated is not quite correct, in my experience.  You wrote "The fact that the Select Other menu (one procedural call) is popping up instead of the coincident constraint icon (another, mutually exclusive procedural call)...".  On my system, at least, the Select Other dialog always replaces the constraint icons after the delay interval set by Application Options, and it still operates the same way even when the constraint icons don't display.  In other words, I don't think the SO dialog is popping up instead of the constraints; the constraints simply aren't displaying, and the SO dialog pops up when it's supposed to.

I wasn't trying to suggest that it was a hardware issue, but I'm not a programmer so I will let the possible source of the problem to others to figure out.

Sam B
Inventor 2012 Certified Professional

Inventor Professional 2014 SP1 U2
Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit, SP1
HP EliteBook 8770w; 8 GB RAM; Core™ i7-3720QM 2.60 GHz; Quadro K4000M

[mrattray]

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@sbixler wrote:

On my system, at least, the Select Other dialog always replaces the constraint icons after the delay interval set by Application Options, and it still operates the same way even when the constraint icons don't display.  In other words, I don't think the SO dialog is popping up instead of the constraints; the constraints simply aren't displaying, and the SO dialog pops up when it's supposed to.

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That makes me wonder. What is your (the OP's) interval set to?

I wonder if maybe this value is too low, and the Select Other is simply popping up right away?

[chipwitch]

Hey, great suggestion.  I'll check the time delay setting, though I'm not hopeful.  Your observation that the select other menu pops up regardless may be right even though it isn't my experience.  I don't use the select other menu in sketch mode so perhaps I've overestimated it's involvement.  The absence of the CC icon IS something I miss.  If I understand you correctly, the CC icon pops up followed by a delay and then the select other menu?  If so, I wasn't aware of that.   I'll keep that in mind as I look more deeply.  If it's as I understand you, there would be two successive calls.  First, to the CC icon procedure, then, if no click is detected, after a brief delay, the second procedure is called for the select other menu.  Of course, this is all conjecture on my part.  But, it would explain the appearance to me that the select other menu procedure was being called instead of the CC icon procedure.

Thanks for pointing that out.  There's so much complexity to Inventor, each individual's workflow experience is almost as unique as fingerprints.  I've been using Inventor a few years and it still amazes me how much they've managed to simplify for the user all the complexities inherent in such a powerful package.  For all the bugs, they get a lot of it right.

[chipwitch]

I'm sorry for not replying.  I was out of the office for a few days.

I checked the delay setting.  It was at 0.8 seconds.  I set it to 1 second.  Since this is an intermittent problem that I cannot repeat, only time will demonstrate whether or not this was the cause.  Like I said previously, with the options I've been using, the "Select Other" menu pops up normally sequentially after the coincidental constraint icons pop up most of the time.  So, for this reason, my guess is that the time delay of 0.8 seconds is acceptable.  However, I can see how it could cause an intermittent problem.